"The role of a university is ...." - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Nov 20, 2004

"The role of a university is ...."

Date: Nov 20, 2004

What I want to know is what "next level" she has in mind. Up? Or down? Who goes? Who stays behind?

Date: Nov 20, 2004

How incredibly narrow. I'd not object if she said "one of the objectives" of a university might be the creation of wealth. But to cite that as THE primary mission of a university (not "preservation and accumulation of knowlege;" not "contributions to intellectual and cultural development" for instance) -- is a seriously flawed analysis.

The university is being redefined by the barbarians . . . we have a kind of economic talibanism here (which is interesting since "talib" means student . . . .) We are living in a culture where we are only a step away from every human being's "worth" being defined by their capacity as a part of the "economic development" engine. I'm not sure how caregivers, philosophers or priests will fare here -- let alone artists, teachers, and scholars.

I'm beginning to think that my more urgent mission as a professor is get students to reject this kind of reductivism . . . . and that I have an olbigation to do it explicitly rather than indirectly.

The arts and humanities have always been agents of resistence to this kind of crassness -- we are living in an increasingly totalitarian culture . . . the combination of religion and its alliance with the rhetoric wealth aquisition is the enemy of the kind of individualism our ancestors envisioned . . .

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"How incredibly narrow. I'd not object if she said "one of the objectives" of a university might be the creation of wealth. But to cite that as THE primary mission of a university (not "preservation and accumulation of knowlege;" not "contributions to intellectual and cultural development" for instance) -- is a seriously flawed analysis. The university is being redefined by the barbarians . . . we have a kind of economic talibanism here (which is interesting since "talib" means student . . . .) We are living in a culture where we are only a step away from every human being's "worth" being defined by their capacity as a part of the "economic development" engine. I'm not sure how caregivers, philosophers or priests will fare here -- let alone artists, teachers, and scholars. I'm beginning to think that my more urgent mission as a professor is get students to reject this kind of reductivism . . . . and that I have an olbigation to do it explicitly rather than indirectly. The arts and humanities have always been agents of resistence to this kind of crassness -- we are living in an increasingly totalitarian culture . . . the combination of religion and its alliance with the rhetoric wealth aquisition is the enemy of the kind of individualism our ancestors envisioned . . . "

Right on target, as usual, Stephen. However, I would include the basic sciences with the arts and humanities in what you said above because it usually takes decades for discoveries in these areas to produce economic benefits if they ever do. For example, I recently heard a scientist at USM state, " Einstein would never be able to get tenure at USM with the current "value" system. What a condemnation of the current philosophy!

Date: Nov 20, 2004

Stephen, speaking from somewhere to the right of you, I agree that students need to understand that learning for its own sake is precious and valuable. I join you in rejecting "crassness" -- and in believing whole-heartedly in the value of a liberal education (in the academic sense of liberal.) It is very hard to get students to see that they are in college for something besides a bigger paycheck -- maybe for a bigger life?

"The arts and humanities have always been agents of resistence to this kind of crassness -- we are living in an increasingly totalitarian culture . . . the combination of religion and its alliance with the rhetoric wealth aquisition is the enemy of the kind of individualism our ancestors envisioned . . . "

I'm not sure I know what to make of this paragraph. I experienced a suffocating "totalitarian culture" in a violently left-wing and supposedly "liberal" academic department of a famous university.
I disagree with the last statement about the combination of religion and making money. America has always been about making money. I regret that certain people are my co-religionists and belong to the same political party; they do not necessarily speak for the majority.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

And by the way, I neglected to add -- that recording shows exactly how qualified Dr. Dvorak was to be a Vice-President, much less President, of this or any other university. We ought to start an award for Unadulterated Drivel!
(No, maybe not. I might get nominated too.)

Date: Nov 20, 2004

people seem to be responding to something i can't find. was there a hyperlink to what you all are responding to? if so, where is it in the original post?

Date: Nov 20, 2004

The underlined word "answer" is a link to an audio clip of Dr. Dvorak speaking. Mine came up in Quicktime.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"The underlined word "answer" is a link to an audio clip of Dr. Dvorak speaking. Mine came up in Quicktime."

LVN, I can't get the audio clip to work. Evidently others can't either. Maybe I'm computer illiterate. Would you or someone else please post a few words of what you heard in audio?

Date: Nov 20, 2004

For the benefit of those who could not access the recording --- Angie was Angie and it wasn't pretty.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

The irony is that most USM students need real education to succeed in the marketplace because they tend to come from poor or working class families. They need language and writing skills to compete with students from middle class backgrounds. They need to learn to think abstractly if they are to become professionals. They need a basic understanding of history and an exposure to the arts and literature. In short, they need education not training.

The same observations apply to the general population in Mississippi. Until education improves greatly, "economic development" will be slow in coming.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

For those of you who can't access it, here's my transcription of the recording -

“If you look at the hallmark of economic development, it’s about wealth creation and quality of life. And when you look at the role of a university it’s certainly about wealth creation, creating high quality individuals to be a part of an economical base as well as the quality of life in the community, so it’s an opportunity for us to really see how the broader understanding of economic development comes together and I’m excited about what we’ve done with the university but I do think we can take it to the next level.”

Date: Nov 20, 2004

I'm not sure what is meant by "quality of life," but I suspect it means more income and more material goods rather than the riches that every educated person has within.

Ergo, here's a warning from Aesop on "taking it to the next level":

A COTTAGER and his wife had a Hen that laid a golden egg every day. They supposed that the Hen must contain a great lump of gold in its inside, and in order to get the gold they killed it. Having done so, they found to their surprise that the Hen differed in no respect from their other hens. The foolish pair, thus hoping to become rich all at once, deprived themselves of the gain of which they were assured day by day.

(Edition: George Townsend, 1887)

Jameela

Date: Nov 20, 2004

Jameela, thanks. I know.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Transcriptionist du jour
"...so it’s an opportunity for us to really see how the broader understanding of economic development comes together..."

As a taxpayer, I would enjoy seeing a simple definition of "economic development," before I'm asked to see how a broader understanding of it comes together.

I think Jameela is right. It's just about materialism. Can't much blame Angie. She's just reflecting society in general. He who dies with the most toys wins.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

Er, "he who dies with the most toys is still dead."

Date: Nov 20, 2004

I came to Hattiesburg with the notion that as a publicly-supported university USM's primary mission was public service. Was I fooled!

Date: Nov 20, 2004

MEPHISTOPHELES (ANGIE DVORAK?):
Who in this world has not some lack or need?
One this, one that--here it is cash. Indeed,
There is no gathering it off the pavement;
Yet wisdom taps its most profound encavement
In lodes and mason work, where gold unstinted
Waits underground, both minted and unminted;
And who can raise it to the light of day?
Man's gifts of Nature and of Mind, I say.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

EMPEROR:
All this will hardly whisk our woes away;
What is your Lenten sermon good for, pray?
I'm sick of the perennial how and when;
We're short of money--well procure it then.

MEPHISTOPHELES:
I can perform as much, more than you say;
It's easy--easy in a difficult way;
The stuff lies there all ready, yet to reach it--
There is the subtle art, and who can teach it?
Just think: on those calamitous occasions
When land and folk were swept by armed invasions,
How this or that man, deep in terror's meshes,
Would rush to hide all that he held most precious.
This was in ancient Roman times the way,
And ever since, till yesterday, today.
These hoard lie buried in the ground, and it--
The soil's the Emperor's, his the benefit.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

Forgive me. The poet meant:

"hoards"

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Scientist
" Right on target, as usual, Stephen. However, I would include the basic sciences with the arts and humanities in what you said above because it usually takes decades for discoveries in these areas to produce economic benefits if they ever do. For example, I recently heard a scientist at USM state, " Einstein would never be able to get tenure at USM with the current "value" system. What a condemnation of the current philosophy!"

oh god you are so right. I think a lot about this and even though I do I forget that there is a speculative and theoretical aspect to the sciences -- science as "art" if you will -- mea culpa.

My belief -- since you never know what to practical end knowlege might apply itself, the general search for knowlege must always be considered basic research even when it does not necessarily have a clear goal in mind. So we cannot know that the person who is researching some obscure poet in Tibet might not lead to a cure for a particular type of cancer because of the way knowlege is -- meaning knowlege is not just about information but it is about insight. Would Einstein have gotten to the general theory of relativity without his experience as a musician and visual thinker . . . . ? But in our current world those aspects of his personality and his quest for knowlege might be defined as "not focused enough," or, worse "not applicable to economic development."

We are an academic community -- why are we even having this discussion?

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
We are an academic community -- why are we even having this discussion?

Answer: Because we are losing our institutional memory. Our long-term memory is being neutered. Our short-term memory is all that remains. We must keep reminding ourselves of the essential academic values that make universities great thinking tanks.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"
We are an academic community -- why are we even having this discussion?
"

Because the people in the dome either do not know what academic values are, or simply do not believe in them. And they are doing their damndest to make sure that everyone acts in accordance with their values. They are not interested in history or even in standarad academic practice.

I am no longer at USM and I am here to tell you that even though Thames and Pood and Dvorak and Klumb all act like this is the way the world is, outside of Mississippi, there are countless academic communities that still share these core values. All USM faculty should, even if they have to pay for it themselves, take a trip to a conference or to visit another institution, to remind themselves what academia is about. Take a younger colleague with you. There is a real world out there, not the warped vision in Angie Dvorak's greedy eyes.

Date: Nov 20, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Now elsewhere
All USM faculty should, even if they have to pay for it themselves, take a trip to a conference or to visit another institution, to remind themselves what academia is about . . . . . . . . There is a real world out there . . . . . . . .

A colleage of mine visited Hattiesburg. I made the mistake of bringing him to tne campus for a visit. How embarassing. I was humiliated. He saw through things immediately. He suggested that I go to a professional meeting very soon in order to bring myself back into reality.

Date: Nov 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"We are an academic community -- why are we even having this discussion?
"

Well, "I can't think for ya," since I'm not part of the USM community in the strict sense (a fact for which I'm grateful every day). But I suspect you are having this discussion, Dr. Judd, because USM is still an academic community in spite of the administration's efforts to the contrary. The day this type of discussion ends is the day I'll completely give up on the university.

Date: Nov 22, 2004

All should notice that 90% of the whinning comes from the LAB -The Lazy Arts Building!!!!!! In order to be a tapayer you gotta work?

Date: Nov 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Get Real
"All should notice that 90% of the whinning comes from the LAB -The Lazy Arts Building!!!!!! In order to be a tapayer you gotta work?"

whinning? tapayer?

Maybe someone should have spent a little more time in the LAB!

Date: Nov 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Get Real
"All should notice that 90% of the whinning comes from the LAB -The Lazy Arts Building!!!!!! In order to be a tapayer you gotta work?"

And just where did you get that number? A lot of the people in this board are not at USM, and a lot more are from Business and Education. And, just FYI, everybody in LAB pays taxes, lots of 'em.

Date: Nov 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Linger Longer
"
whinning? tapayer?
Maybe someone should have spent a little more time in the LAB!"

Amen. In my more cynical moments I wonder why the faculty works so hard to give the alumni a university which is better than they deserve or want.

Let's hope this troll is another undergraduate frat boy.

Date: Nov 22, 2004

See stephen's post to the thread "on-line courses" for an eloquent statement about the role of a university.

NO QUARTER.
Anne Wallace

Date: Nov 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Get Real
"All should notice that 90% of the whinning comes from the LAB -The Lazy Arts Building!!!!!! In order to be a tapayer you gotta work?"

Get Real, I gave my soul to your 4th tier university - a mistake which I will always regret. When I see posts like yours I feel I sold my soul to the devil. I am not in COAL, by the way.