Dana canned! - USM Forum -- Message Board

Invictus · Status: Offline

RE: Dana canned!

Reporter · Status: Offline

Earlier on this thread I copied posts from the Hattiesburg American from a former student. Here is another post from that student explaining an incident in more detail:

http://forums.hattiesburgamerican.com/viewtopic.php?t=7691&start=15

The class was not a sign in and leave class but it was one for three weeks because students would show up expecting to attend a lecture class yet there was not instructor. So the night monitor would bring in a legal pad and we signed our name with our id number. This would prove that we were in class so we would not be dropped from the role.

My post may seem "far reaching" and I can only confirm what happened to me. But this is a fact--Dana's leadership evoked intimidation, pressure and frustration that was felt by many students. The proof of the intimidation, pressure and frustration is in the decline in enrollment in the program on the coast and the increase in enrollment in another local university. USM not only lost new students (undergraduate and graduates) due to Dana's treatment of students but they have also lost alumni support.

-- Edited by Reporter at 06:54, 2007-07-17

Cossack · Status: Offline

Professor Judd,
I have read your post and I know that you are sincere in your belief that this is the best route to take. However, there are high costs if the President follows your blueprint. Those costs will be borne by the President ultimately because it will increase her chances failure and faculty who will be governed by SFT in abstention. I will try one more time to communicate my concerns. I like to listen to music. Music is something magical to me in what it conveys and how constant it has been though out many centuries. No how much I enjoy it, I have almost zero insight into the complexities of music. I cannot sing and I stand in awe of someone who can make pleasant sounds from wire strings or blowing air across a reed. As a novice, it would be futile for me to even enter a discussion of music with someone with talent. The same holds for many other topics of which I know little.
Conversely, there are some topics for which everyone feels that they are an expert. One is the area of human relations and organizations. Faculty feel they know this area because they are personally involved in, and affected by, the administration of departments, colleges, and the university. While some insights can be learned by personal experience, it is an imperfect process.
In the area of organizations and human behavior, there is a great body of literature emanating from studies and experiments of organizations including voluntary, business and non-profit. Many of those studies investigate the role of information flow in organizations and its impact on employees and morale. Providing information about the operations of the organization, both good and bad, reduces the amount of rumors and misinformation. It also sends signals to employees about the bounds of behavior and helps define the culture of the organization.
In a situation, such as at USM, where the CEO (president) is faced with changing the management culture and energizing the employees (faculty and staff), information about how wrong doing is not tolerated is of utmost importance. It is important that a clear signal is sent to both faculty (staff) and other administrators. It also is efficient in that the President does not have the time and energy to address the violators one-on-one. Venal administrators exist because they have been successful in the past and have not suffered the consequences. Removing one bad administrator and withholding information about why may be personally appealing. From the comments on the Board, it is appealing to many. This has to do with their own tastes and preferences about being nice or not being nice, or having compassion or not having compassion. It is a luxury they can indulge in because they have zero responsibility and do not have to live with the carnage.
The bottom line is that this President does not have the time or the energy to fix every individual problem, nor should she try. At the same time, the clock is ticking and she needs to gain control as fast as possible. Consequently, she must send strong signals, and sometimes harsh signals, to gain control of the organization. Once that occurs, and it may take more than a year, she can turn from fixing things to creating things. Protecting the feelings of bad administrators is a luxury she cannot afford.
Some have posted that my approach to this is for personal reasons. That is not true anymore than stating that my detractors who believe differently have personal reasons to believe as they do. While I have a rather thick skin, it was disappointing to read. Moreover, at my age I do not have that many more years to be at USM or maybe even on earth. I survived SFT and am surviving the corrupt administrators still on the job in my college. I am sad for the bright and hard working junior faculty, but they catch on quickly and they are leaving faster than we can hire. It is people your age, Professor Judd who will bear the brunt of trying to restore this university. Some times organizations deteriorate to the point that they cannot recover. Whether this so for USM, I cannot say. The odds against recovery get higher the longer faculty and students are abused by the large number of self-serving administers.

Conversely

Incredulous · Status: Offline

The new president has been in place less than two months and major, positive personnel changes have been made. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to get the picture. There is no need to beat up on people as they move out of their offices. There is no benefit from humiliating people excessively. It's a whole new day and a whole new way of doing business. Dr. Saunders has shown that she understands where we have been and where she wishes to lead us.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

I have been following this debate since it started. The parties seem to be talking pass each other.

Cossack said, "Removing one bad administrator and withholding information about why may be personally appealing. From the comments on the Board, it is appealing to many. "

But Cossack, if I understand the comments of the others, that is not what they are saying. They are discussing public announcements put in the press by the employer.

I haven't seen any information suggesting that the President has or hasn't communicated the reasons for the change internally to administrators. She may even plan to do that in the Fall when everyone returns. Slow down and take a deep breath. smile

Obviousman · Status: Offline

Any word on who the interim Chair will be?

OM

Emma · Status: Offline

Is it true that the Reeves Kazelskis and Kazelskis people are retiring? How about Beth Richmond? Surely neither Carolyn or Beth will become interim chair? Too close to the newly stepped-down chair.

stinky cheese man · Status: Offline

the kazelskis' have retired.

knarf · Status: Offline

i hear it will be daves or walker

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

knarf wrote:

i hear it will be daves or walker

Daves? Doesn't he just have a few years in higher ed under his belt? That would make two interim chairs who are very junior with respect to academic experience and untenured in CEP. The rest of the chairs in the college are all associate professors (one interim also)-and no fulls. Both the Dean and Associate Dean are interims and at the associate rank. If Saunders is still looking for "firsts" or "onlys" that distinguish us from other comprehensive universities, this might be it.

Dr VanNostren · Status: Offline

I have heard that there are certain individuals -- some of whom have very little higher ed experience -- who are willing to "play ball" with the old-time bureaucrats who sold Fleming out and who weathered Thames. At present, these old timers are reasserting themselves and moving to put some new "ball players" in place where it counts.

knarf · Status: Offline

Daves to be announced as new chair at CISE faculty meeting today

Dr VanNostren · Status: Offline

knarf wrote:

Daves to be announced as new chair at CISE faculty meeting today

I know that he has experience working with the bureaucrats that keep USM mired in the old ways of thinking and acting. It is my conjecture that he will keep CoEP in line, even if he uses a velvet glove.

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

Dr VanNostren wrote:

knarf wrote:

Daves to be announced as new chair at CISE faculty meeting today

I know that he has experience working with the bureaucrats that keep USM mired in the old ways of thinking and acting. It is my conjecture that he will keep CoEP in line, even if he uses a velvet glove.

We are unique in that four of the new (since February) managers in the college have minimal university experience, and have used USM as a second home after retiring as school principals or administrators. Two have not even passed third year review. The mind-set seems to be that K-12 school experience earns years off the tenure clock and is a great training ground for the professoriate. The crazy part of all this is that there are oddles of seasoned, experienced, and rational individuals available in the college who could have stepped in on an interim basis for all these positions. I am at a loss to explain why Dr. Saunders would allow our college to continue to move in this direction.

J J · Status: Offline

May I just start by noting "PRAISE GOD" :) Many have suffered at the hands of the Thames' tyranny and for those people this has been a tremendous relief. Students in the CISE building have feared and loathed her for years. The worst part, though, was the fact that we had no one to turn to for help. Whenever you would attempt to seek outside help, mysteriously, you were found out. And boy, when you get "found out," you might as well change majors. Two of her least favorite, but most intelligent and worthy, students failed their qualifying exams. Yet, one of the graders said they were some of the best she had seen at USM. They both changed their majors and are doing very well. This kind of story has rotated throughout the department and beyond. One of the most highly respected professors at USM declined to participate in any more CISE dissertation committees due to poor and unfair leadership in the department. At last, the abuse might stop and students will come back.

Curmudgeon · Status: Offline

Godless Liberal said:

We are unique in that four of the new (since February) managers in the college have minimal university experience, and have used USM as a second home after retiring as school principals or administrators. Two have not even passed third year review. The mind-set seems to be that K-12 school experience earns years off the tenure clock and is a great training ground for the professoriate. The crazy part of all this is that there are oddles of seasoned, experienced, and rational individuals available in the college who could have stepped in on an interim basis for all these positions. I am at a loss to explain why Dr. Saunders would allow our college to continue to move in this direction.

Isn't this an issue for the provost to deal with? The president should not have to be much concerned with the appointment of department chairs and assistant deans.

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

Curmudgeon wrote:

Godless Liberal said:

We are unique in that four of the new (since February) managers in the college have minimal university experience, and have used USM as a second home after retiring as school principals or administrators. Two have not even passed third year review. The mind-set seems to be that K-12 school experience earns years off the tenure clock and is a great training ground for the professoriate. The crazy part of all this is that there are oddles of seasoned, experienced, and rational individuals available in the college who could have stepped in on an interim basis for all these positions. I am at a loss to explain why Dr. Saunders would allow our college to continue to move in this direction.

Isn't this an issue for the provost to deal with? The president should not have to be much concerned with the appointment of department chairs and assistant deans.

You would think. But we are in an odd spot with a transition between Provosts at the moment and with a very, very new President. At this point, I suspect that no major changes of this sort can be made without the President's knowledge and approval. I am pretty sure that Dr. S will move away from this much hands on activity as all the interim slots get filled.

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

J J wrote:

May I just start by noting "PRAISE GOD" :) Many have suffered at the hands of the Thames' tyranny and for those people this has been a tremendous relief. Students in the CISE building have feared and loathed her for years. The worst part, though, was the fact that we had no one to turn to for help. Whenever you would attempt to seek outside help, mysteriously, you were found out. And boy, when you get "found out," you might as well change majors. Two of her least favorite, but most intelligent and worthy, students failed their qualifying exams. Yet, one of the graders said they were some of the best she had seen at USM. They both changed their majors and are doing very well. This kind of story has rotated throughout the department and beyond. One of the most highly respected professors at USM declined to participate in any more CISE dissertation committees due to poor and unfair leadership in the department. At last, the abuse might stop and students will come back.

Some of us who are faculty and former administrators also suffered mightily when we spoke out. The new chair seems like a nice enough guy, but he is tight with DT, who will still be around presumably. Plus, with the exception of a couple of folks, all the faculty in CISE were hand picked by DT. So, expect some changes in the right direction with her departure from the chair position; but, until and unless we get high-quality non-interim leadership throughout the college, it will remain a rough ride for some of us.

The good thing for you and us is that the people now in the Dome will no longer tolerate the degree of bad behavior exhibited by DT and others in the Thames era.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

knarf wrote:

Daves to be announced as new chair at CISE faculty meeting today

Well, it's 4:55 pm. Has an announcement been made?

J J · Status: Offline

Hmmm.... I guess people must still be very, very quiet. What a shame! :(

J J · Status: Offline

Really, to get the announcement for Daves new post, you must check the Hattiesburg American, right?

J J · Status: Offline

You guys and your steak......

Our prayer group is going to throw one heck of a party!!!

Alice · Status: Offline

First post - be kind -

As Frank McCourt says "just teach man" - this university began as a "teacher's college" - it takes a long time to grow up. We need a teacher in the CISE chair position - we've got one who has some administrative experience as well - albeit not in higher ed.

Now someone teach me how to get the fancy picture under your name.

J J tell us when and where on the party.

Dr VanNostren · Status: Offline

Godless Liberal wrote:

We are unique in that four of the new (since February) managers in the college have minimal university experience, and have used USM as a second home after retiring as school principals or administrators. Two have not even passed third year review. The mind-set seems to be that K-12 school experience earns years off the tenure clock and is a great training ground for the professoriate. The crazy part of all this is that there are oddles of seasoned, experienced, and rational individuals available in the college who could have stepped in on an interim basis for all these positions. I am at a loss to explain why Dr. Saunders would allow our college to continue to move in this direction.

Saunders has been making a show of "making changes," but I don't expect that her "changes" represent much change at all. There are those who simply MUST believe that Saunders is independent of the group that empowered Shelby Thames, but the simple fact is that Saunders is part of the same club to which Thames belongs.

I feel for CoEP, especially since the new guy is going to have to screw things up royally to get any attention from the kind of faculty who frequent this message board. You should prepare yourself to have your concerns marginalized until Daves participates in firing someone.

Moderator · Status: Offline

That does it. Goodbye, Dr. VN.

Alice · Status: Offline

Moderator wrote:

That does it. Goodbye, Dr. VN.

Is Dr. VN canned now????

LVN · Status: Offline

Dr. Van Nostren's comments are deeply offensive. "Faculty like those who frequent this message board" include Stephen Judd, Amy Young, Frank Glamser, and Jameela Lares, among those who post under their own names.

As for the ridiculous charge that Saunders is part of the same club to which Thames belongs, I happen to know the person who nominated Dr. Saunders to be president, have known him from another university many years ago, and I can categorically state that Dr. Van Nostren's remark is as untrue as it is scurrilous.

Moderator · Status: Offline

Alice wrote:

Is Dr. VN canned now????

Yes. "He" was warned previously.

On to other business, you asked about a picture next to your name.
Go to your profile page (click on your name) to select an avatar and/or create a signature. Please read through the board and don't select an avatar somebody else is using.

LVN · Status: Offline

I'm just back from wading through the muck on another website, Which Shall Not Be Named. Interesting that that site has no place for comments or feedback from its readers. Hmmm. Somebody could've won a Nobel Prize in their field with the energy that's been expended there, tracking down such critical information as the distance various faculty members live from one another and from their former dean.
In the interest of transparency I should reveal that I live approximately one mile, give or take, from Dr. Saunders' house, and my drive time over there is about four minutes (making allowances for the way I drive. Do I count time spent at various 4-way stop signs waiting for somebody to just go, for heavens sake! or do I just count the time the wheels are actually rolling.) Also, is it important that I've never actually been to the house? It didn't seem important on that other site that the people named may or may not have actually been to each other's houses, they were all in some kind of conspiracy anyway. I was left with one or two questions -- if you work in the same place as somebody, why does it matter how far away from them you live? I mean, you know, there are telephones, email, and all sorts of ways to be in a conspiracy without having to get dressed, find your shoes, your wallet and your keys, and truck a couple of miles over to somebody's house (in the dead of night, presumably) to conspire with them about your job. Heck, you could even meet them for lunch. (And is it a little strange to criticize the affluent neighborhood your colleagues live in, if you live there too? Just wondering.)

Another thing, why does the originator of the Website Which Shall Not Be Named, brag about his "hits"? This is a meaningless number, and the supposed list of places from which people are reading is also meaningless. Maybe he should find out about "spiders" and "bots." How do you think Google knows what's on your site? Those little things run all over the web gathering information for search engines, and they make your hit numbers go through the roof. Totally meaningless.

And finally, I am one of those who does not believe the supposed Dr. Van Nostren is any more a faculty member than I am. Although, come to think of it, I've been an adjunct. Dr N has made lots of little mistakes over the past however long, culminating in one really big one a few months ago that some of us remember. If anyone credible will private message me and assure me that this individual is actually a USM faculty member, I will be happy to apologize.

Edited to remove a person's name. LVN

-- Edited by LVN at 16:31, 2007-07-25

donedoneit · Status: Offline

What is the name of this website Which Shall Not Be Named?