Reception for Thames - time for another protest? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

RE: Reception for Thames - time for another protest?

Date: May 5, 2007

LeftASAP wrote:

I thought everyone know that at USM all money brought in from ouside be it research grants, contratual service contracts, teacher training grants, Federal Pork,etc, etc. is all considered RESEARCH. In other words, faculty activities are teaching, service and "making money".

ASAP - you may, infortunately, be correct. If so, USM has not yet achieved anything near a Tier 1 academic mentality. One paramount job of a faculty member a major university is to conduct research designed to contribute to the greater body of knowledge in their respective discipline - it is NOT to generate money. Money is a mere byproduct. Research trumps contracts.

asdf · Status: Offline

I only speak from my experiences in the sciences, so Jameela, I recognize that some fields may be different (though I am sure when you need to visit distant archives for your research, you must have some money, or you would not be able to travel and therefore complete your research). In order to fulfill the research requirement in the sciences, you need a lab. And many research universities have a dollar amount per square foot requirement (either in writing or implied). As for example universities, just do a google search and you will find many top tier universities' reports on money per square foot of lab space. They do not generate these reports for the heck of it. They are looking for people or programs to kick out to replace with more profitable ones.

Date: May 5, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard about the portrait (actually Aubrey is the one spearheading the project, and I was told the artist is a USM alum). I also heard it will be placed in the polymer science building, which would make more sense than placing it in the Lucas Administration Building.

The fact that Aubrey is behind this portrait, no matter where it is hung, it very, very, very disappointing. Has he no shame? He could at least do nothing to honor this disaster.
Interested Onlooker

I'm not sure it would be disappointing. I mean wasn't he a co-chair for the capital campaign "Our Time is Now"? And just recently with with the Ogletree House campaign. Is it uncommon for the president emeritus, at any university, to continue to aid the university in raising money despite how unpopular the current administration may be?

Beck

Jameela Lares · Status: Offline

asdf wrote:

I only speak from my experiences in the sciences, so Jameela, I recognize that some fields may be different (though I am sure when you need to visit distant archives for your research, you must have some money, or you would not be able to travel and therefore complete your research). In order to fulfill the research requirement in the sciences, you need a lab. And many research universities have a dollar amount per square foot requirement (either in writing or implied). As for example universities, just do a google search and you will find many top tier universities' reports on money per square foot of lab space. They do not generate these reports for the heck of it. They are looking for people or programs to kick out to replace with more profitable ones.

Ah, thanks for the clarification, asdf. I've unfortunately run my long-suffering American Express card rather a lot getting to distant research sites, but liberal arts research is still far more cost-effective than anything in the sciences. In fact, didn't a number of people--in the height of the bottom-line insanity that was the last several years--mention the fact on this board that the liberal arts already bring in money for universities?

Jameela

Curmudgeon · Status: Offline

Robert Campbell pointed out repeatedly how liberal arts service courses are a major source of tuition money for universities. If you look at credit hours generated by disciplines like English, history, and psychology as compared to costs, they are big profit makers. Conversely, some departments that generate lots of external funding are far less profitable because of high salaries and expenses and low enrollment per faculty member. Often such programs are actually net mony losers. The actual net "profit" associated with many grants is quite small.

Date: May 5, 2007

asdf wrote:
. . . . . . you will find many top tier universities' reports on money per square foot of lab space. They do not generate these reports for the heck of it. They are looking for people or programs to kick out to replace with more profitable ones.

You are referring here to the bush league universities, not to the top tier ones. The top tier ones fully understand that undersubscribed courses, such as Latin to name only one example, must be retained even if they do not "break even" financially.

If a faculty member wants to conduct some brainless non- refereed contractual project solely for the benefit of some industry, that faculty member would probably be well advised to seek employment in industry rather than in academics.

Date: May 5, 2007

'm not sure it would be disappointing. I mean wasn't he a co-chair for the capital campaign "Our Time is Now"? And just recently with with the Ogletree House campaign. Is it uncommon for the president emeritus, at any university, to continue to aid the university in raising money despite how unpopular the current administration may be?

I think that campaign was started under Fleming.
Is the purpose of this portrait to raise money for the Foundation?

Date: May 5, 2007

There is a big difference in raising money for a school and honoring someone with their portrait. And that is exactly what it is. In effect it is saying "a job well done."

Date: May 5, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

Is the purpose of this portrait to raise money for the Foundation?

I remember a time when the conference room of COEP was laced wall-to-wall with paintings of former deans. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

asdf · Status: Offline

Anonymous wrote:
You are referring here to the bush league universities, not to the top tier ones. The top tier ones fully understand that undersubscribed courses, such as Latin to name only one example, must be retained even if they do not "break even" financially.

I said lab space, not classroom space. Big difference.

Date: May 6, 2007

asdf wrote:

I said lab space, not classroom space. Big difference.

Isn't lab space considerably more expensive than classroom space? Lab space is basically worthless unless it contains lab equipment. A blackboard and a supply of chalk, on the other hand, is rather inexpensive. If money is the determining factor, maybe the financial "savings" should be directed toward the salaries of those who teach in those barren classrooms.

Date: May 6, 2007

Anonymous wrote:

asdf wrote:

I said lab space, not classroom space. Big difference.
Isn't lab space considerably more expensive than classroom space? Lab space is basically worthless unless it contains lab equipment. A blackboard and a supply of chalk, on the other hand, is rather inexpensive. If money is the determining factor, maybe the financial "savings" should be directed toward the salaries of those who teach in those barren classrooms.

And to that I would add that those who teach large hoards of students in barren classrooms do so without the benefit of laboratory assistants. To put it another way: From the perspective of the university, he teacher-student ratio of classroom teaching is more favorable for barren classroom teaching than it is for laboratory teaching. Thus, making academic decisions solely on monetary considerations makes no sense at all.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

I always thought it would be funny if some professor at USM doing non-funded theoretical research that required no lab, say in Mathematics or Mathematical Sciences, such as, Theoretical Physics or Theoretical Chemistry, won some prestigious national award for their work 20 years later?

In such frontier fields funding is very difficult to find. However, excellent research can be done without funding just using a good computer or sometimes even pencil and paper.

The award winner would have to explain why their salary and/or academic rank was so low by saying, "Well, my FAR evaluations were always below average because I failed to bring in funding".

I'm sure the same kind of story could, or has, occurred in other fields like Liberal Arts. I guess we will have to wait and see. smile

-- Edited by LeftASAP at 08:22, 2007-05-06

-- Edited by LeftASAP at 13:19, 2007-05-06

Date: May 6, 2007

LeftASAP wrote:

I always thought it would be funny if some professor at USM doing non-funded theoritical research that required no lab, say in Mathematics or Mathematical Sciences, such as, Theoretical Physics or Theoretical Chemistry, won some prestigious national award for their work 20 years later?

True, ASAP. Similarly, I have always thought that a faculty member's teaching can not be properly assessed by the student until the student has graduated and been out of school for many years - e.g., until the student enters the "real world." Some of the college teachers I then viewed as best, I now view as not very good at all; and some of the teachers I viewed as terrible, I now view with admiration and would give them high marks. But I was in college many years ago - before these "grade me high and I'll grade you high" popularity evalutations existed.

Date: May 6, 2007

Anonymous wrote:
True, ASAP. Similarly, I have always thought that a faculty member's teaching can not be properly assessed by the student until the student has graduated and been out of school for many years - e.g., until the student enters the "real world." Some of the college teachers I then viewed as best, I now view as not very good at all; and some of the teachers I viewed as terrible, I now view with admiration and would give them high marks. But I was in college many years ago - before these "grade me high and I'll grade you high" popularity evalutations existed.

ASAP - Well, that's my opinion; and, as we all know, an "anonymous" opinion - such as is the case with teaching student/teacher evaluations, is not worth the paper its written on.

Godless Liberal · Status: Offline

I remember a time when the conference room of COEP was laced wall-to-wall with paintings of former deans. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

About the only thing of consequence I was allowed to do while working in the dean's office was to have these removed and sent to Archives (and some folks in the college would say that I did even less than zero while there). Hippocrates had it right-if only the Domers thought so...

Date: May 6, 2007

Godless Liberal wrote:

I remember a time when the conference room of COEP was laced wall-to-wall with paintings of former deans. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

About the only thing of consequence I was allowed to do while working in the dean's office was to have these removed . .

Good for you, Goodless Liberal. They never should have been there in the first place. A former colleague of mine used to call those paintings an example of the "Edifice" complex.