HA, 4/1/07: USM to welcome record number of Scholars - USM Forum -- Message Board

info · Status: Offline

HA, 4/1/07: USM to welcome record number of Scholars

asdf · Status: Offline

Amazing, if you drop the ACT requirement from 32 to 30, you can give more people scholarships and call it a record year.

At least it was 32 during late Lucas and Fleming's time. I don't know what the requirement has been during Thames' time.

-- Edited by asdf at 15:26, 2007-04-01

Incredulous · Status: Offline

Giving more full free rides at the top by lowering the bar a tad is a slick way to compensate for more students at the bottom of the ACT range. That way the mean ACT is stable. When your student body averages 20, a few extra 30's makes a difference.

qwerty · Status: Offline

I have a hard time seeing a scholarship as anything but a very good thing for the students and for USM. Our students haven't attended very good high schools, but that doesn't mean they don't have potential and can't make up for lost ground once they get here. The ACT is just a test.

asdf · Status: Offline

Qwerty, please don't get me wrong. I am all for scholarships, and think USM needs more. But to lower a requirement and then state you have a record number is just dishonest. That would be like moving the outfield fence in by 50 ft at the Pete and touting that your team hit a record number of home runs.

I hope USM is gaining a larger number of top caliber students. I also hope that having a prez that was once the head of an honors program means that the Honors College will have what it needs in order to attract more and more of these students.

Southern Belle · Status: Offline

Quoting asdf "But to lower a requirement and then state you have a record number is just dishonest."

The issue of dishonesty has come up time after time with this administration. Remember the inflated enrollment figures which forced Dr. Tim Hudson to find other employement?

Dishonesty seems to be the way this administration has operated and the only way this administration can hope to leave with a high note.

USM Alum · Status: Offline

asdf wrote:

Amazing, if you drop the ACT requirement from 32 to 30, you can give more people scholarships and call it a record year.

At least it was 32 during late Lucas and Fleming's time. I don't know what the requirement has been during Thames' time.

-- Edited by asdf at 15:26, 2007-04-01

Is this true? Did they drop the ACT requirements?

stinky cheese man · Status: Offline

the ACT has been a 30 since pre-Thames. i'm not at all sure when, or if, it changed. two other factors may account for the increase--we're off probation with SACS and the university has put more money in presidential scholarships. the ACT score has been a constant for a while.

Incredulous · Status: Offline

Presidential Scholarships used to be very limited in number and very competitive. The standard was set by the number to be funded. I seem to recall that something fewer than 10 was normal. A large number of applicants were reviewed, and the number of awards was determined by the number funded for that year. In 2004 there were 13 Presidential Scholars (Google) as compared to 45 for this coming fall. While all of those students must be very good, if you take the top 45, the standard must be lower.

Interestingly, Thames had little use for the Honors College his first couple of years in office. It was only when things started going bad on the PR front (bogus enrollment, no confidence votes, SACS probation) that the number of Presidential Scholars funded increased dramatically. Pumping an extra 30 high ACT students into the freshman class boosts the average ACT and looks good in the paper.

Interested onlooker · Status: Offline

What is Ken Panton going to do after he retires? Is he going back to England?

Truth probably knows the history of the Honors College numbers--both enrollment and scholarships.

Emma · Status: Offline

Thames's granddaughter had some issues with the Honors College back in that 1998 - 2000 area and dropped out of it. The importance of the HC diminished in their collective minds immediately. After all, that's how it works in Thamesworld.

asdf · Status: Offline

SCM,
I am sure your data is more up-to-date than mine. I just know in the not so distant past, it took at 32.

Emma,
I think SFT's dislike of the Honors College is older than his granddaughter's problems and I do not think it is SFT specific. I know that Polymer Science used to discourage majors (in private) from being in Honors College. It was considered a waste of time taking hard classes that required a great deal of work for something that did not pertain to your major and prevented you from spending more time in the lab. They would tell you that if you wanted the graduation honors, then you should do Senior Honors and write a senior thesis, since a thesis was already a requirement for the polymer degree (PSC 490&491).

Emma · Status: Offline

I figured it was more than that, and I appreciate the additional insight.

Rod Sterling · Status: Offline

stinky cheese man wrote:

the ACT has been a 30 since pre-Thames. i'm not at all sure when, or if, it changed. two other factors may account for the increase--we're off probation with SACS and the university has put more money in presidential scholarships. the ACT score has been a constant for a while.

Another factor (reported by NBC news this morning) is that there has been a significant increase in the number of rejections from tier 1-3 institutions as the result of the "baby boom" rebound effect (a surge in college bound students who are offspring of baby boomers). It follows that our increase in scholars is the result of their inability to get into the upper tier institutiions.

Eagle · Status: Offline

I want to respond to some of the comments on this thread. First, not everything that happens at USM is because of or in spite of Shelby Thames. He is on the way out. We have a great person coming in to lead this University and we should be happy for the change.Second, what is your problem with giving scholarships? I will use a previously cited analogy that giving more Presidential Scholarships is like moving the fence and declaring that more home runs have been hit. The real fact is that students selected for the Honors College can all hit it out of the park (though for me it was actually a ground rule double). Those with 32 or higher on the ACT can just hit it further. If more money is available to provide opportunities for more students why is that a problem?What do you want? Do you want these students to go to another university? I certainly don't. I want these students to come to USM and apply for more scholarships so they can be the Goldwater, Truman, and Rhodes scholars of the future. I want them here.One other note. The article said that 11 of the students were from the Hattiesburg/Laurel area. Students that get in the Honors College also tend to keep up on current events and read the local newspapers. They have been reading about the problems at USM for the last five years, these were the years where they made decisions about what field to choose and what University to attend. This means they picked USM because of the opportunities here, not the limitations imposed by Thames.Long after the Thames administration is a faded memory these students and others like them will be making significant contributions in their fields. I hope they will remember USM positively and help support other students in the future. I wish we had the money to provide 45 more scholarships like this.As the headline said "USM Welcomes Scholars." I wish this board could do the same.

truth4usmAH · Status: Offline

Ah, the Honors College numbers...you know, it's been so long that even I can't remember if the requirement to apply for a Presidential Scholarship back in my day as an administrator there (1995-2000) was 30 or 32. I'm thinking it was a 30 then, also (I know you could be a NMF and apply, regardless of your score, though most NMF's had a 30 or above). It was probably revamped when the Big Change happened between Wallace Kay and Peggy Prenshaw's tenures as Dean of the HC...a lot changed at that time (1985).

Regardless of whether the baseline was 30 or 32 ACT score, the number of scholarships has definitely skyrocketed...we only had 10 to offer back in my days there. I think that it is a good thing to offer more full scholarships to students who are qualified...no problem with that. But the fact that they changed the General Honors requirements (took out the Colloquium series) for retention purposes...well, it has always seemed to me that this was taking the easy way out. I mean, Colloquium was the cornerstone class for the HC back in the day, and without it, I don't see how students in the HC form any kind of cohesive identity. Now, I'm not there anymore, so I don't know how the students feel about HC now. But, back then, there were plenty of students who saw the HC as the group they identified with most strongly on campus. I hope that this is still the case for the majority of the HC students now.

Truth

PS--And, yes, those who are stating that Polymer Science always discouraged their students from doing the full Honors Program are correct. Believe it or not, Music and Dance majors had the toughest time fitting the Honors classes into their schedules to due to their many hours of practice/rehearsals. But those advisors never discouraged their students from doing Honors the way that PSC advisors did.

Eagle · Status: Offline

You are right, Colloquium was a major part of the Honors College education and I wish they could get that experience again.

It is unfortunate that many in the sciences, and I am a Sci Tech graduate, do not value that learning experience.

Glad they could save the Honors College.

asdf · Status: Offline

Eagle,
I'm sorry that you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I agree that scholarships are good...I hope we one day have the money to fund hundreds of full scholarships for deserving students. I also hope that USM can continue to attract more and more talented students with high test scores and/or other measures of success. I want them to come to USM and I think USM should offer competitive financial packages to make sure they come.

That being said, my only objection was to the PR twist on the story. That is all. Not the requirements, not the students, not Thames (unless he directed PR to write that particular story), only PR.

Truth,
I completely agree about colloquium. Honors College does not seem like it would be the same without it.