negative story just on WDAM - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Sep 21, 2004

negative story just on WDAM

Date: Sep 21, 2004

i wondered when this thread would start--it was on the 6:00 news.

Date: Sep 21, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Messenger
"They interviewed Elliott Pood, who seemed irate at the FL prof (who was unnamed).
"

Isn't this a bit unprofessional on Pood's part? Has the student filed a formal grievance? Shouldn't Pood not comment and say this matter is being handled internally . . . .etc. etc. etc.?

Date: Sep 21, 2004

both wheeler and pood said they wished the student had gone through normal channels. the original poster, in my judgment, overstated what pood said. nothing in his statement indicated he was irate. i wonder who leaked the story. i had a very difficult time finding the original story on the web.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/202004d.asp

This is the link to the original story.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
" i had a very difficult time finding the original story on the web. "

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/9/202004d.asp

Date: Sep 22, 2004

Sorry for the dupe link Tink. I was casting about for a link to the WDAM story too, and didn't check back before I posted.

I offer this link as penance: http://www.trelease-on-reading.com/censor_entry.html

Note the quote: "Some claim the Potter books lure children into witchcraft. Poppycock. You might as well say Gone With the Wind teaches young readers to be slave owners, or Treasure Island entices children to be pirates, or Peter Pan urges children to run away from home."

Date: Sep 22, 2004

SFT's grandaughter supposedly dropped out of the Honors College for this very reason. She was asked to read "offensive" material.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: hot link
"You might as well say Gone With the Wind teaches young readers to be slave owners"

Then there's my heroine, Belle Watling.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: About town
"SFT's grandaughter supposedly dropped out of the Honors College for this very reason. She was asked to read "offensive" material. "

That's sort of the point of higher education, isn't it? To read material that challenges your beliefs, makes you think and defend your positions, expands your intellectual horizons, etc. If these folks are offended by certain books, then there are plenty of private institutions in MS that they can attend with other like-minded people.

FWIW, I was the coordinator of General Honors when SFT's granddaughter was in the HC. I don't remember hearing anything about this when she dropped out, but it's entirely possible that these discussions took place among the higher-ups.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"That's sort of the point of higher education, isn't it? To read material that challenges your beliefs, makes you think and defend your positions, expands your intellectual horizons, etc. If these folks are offended by certain books, then there are plenty of private institutions in MS that they can attend with other like-minded people."

Several current nationally-marketed anatomy & physiology textbooks meet the Mississippi statutory definition of pornography.

That should dramatically increase the demand for A&P classes at USM. Whether it inspires the biology department to offer more sections is another question entirely...

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Call Me Madame
"Then there's my heroine, Belle Watling."

I love Belle!

Or perhaps GWTW could be required viewing for nurse-midwife courses ("I don't know nothing about birthing no babies!").

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" Several current nationally-marketed anatomy & physiology textbooks meet the Mississippi statutory definition of pornography. That should dramatically increase the demand for A&P classes at USM. Whether it inspires the biology department to offer more sections is another question entirely..."

I always bought my anatomy and physiology texts just for the jokes!!!

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Hardy High Har Har
"I always bought my anatomy and physiology texts just for the jokes!!!"

The ARTICLES, Hardy, the ARTICLES, we buy them for the ARTICLES!!!!!

Date: Sep 22, 2004

I see this as a positive story for USM and our English faculty. At major universities people are assigned real literature that often includes explicit sexual themes. It is also common to run into profs who use salty language. College students are adults, and college is fundamentally different than high school. If this young woman can't handle the big time, she will be happier at a small church related school like William Carey where they cut sections out of textbooks.

Date: Sep 22, 2004

I agree with Shadow -- the faculty have a number of legitimate complaints around here, but we could work a university where these things happen in response to student complaints:

http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2004/3_17_2004/ne170304louisiana.shtml

Date: Sep 22, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: The Shadow
"a small church related school like William Carey where they cut sections out of textbooks."

Really!? What parts?

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: HEST
"I agree with Shadow -- the faculty have a number of legitimate complaints around here, but we could work a university where these things happen in response to student complaints: http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2004/3_17_2004/ne170304louisiana.shtml "

http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2004/3_17_2004/ne170304louisiana.shtml

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
" Really!? What parts?"

As recently as a couple weeks ago, there was a letter to the editor in the Hattiesburg American about William Carey "Cutting six poems by John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester, from the Longman Anthology of British Literature (vol. 1C) The Restoration and Eighteenth Century (used in senior English 440, The Age of Enlightenment) on orders of President Larry W. Kennedy of William Carey College and his proxy, Myron Noonkester, dean of humanities..." It was referred to as "not only a disgraceful act of censorship, it is officially sanctioned vandalism." in the letter by David and Brenda Williamson of Hattiesburg.

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/news/stories/20040911/opinion

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: foot soldier
"Really!? What parts?"

Interestingly, I don't think they cut any "parts" from the anatomy books...

A private, church-related institution may well have an argument for censorship.

But I would want someone who teaches my child to have read controversial literature, simply so s/he can make an intelligent decision about what is & what is not appropriate for a particular age group. I think we can all agree that there are plenty of books that are simply inappropriate or incomprehensible for younger kids. (Gratuitous example: 1984 vs Animal Farm.)

Returning to the USM student who transferred to Belhaven for a moment, what was the rationale for the teacher assigning the book in question? Was it simply a literature assignment, or did the class discuss whether it was appropriate for particular grade levels to read the book? I am, of course, referring to "literature" & not to straight-up porno, which the kids are probably reading on their own by 6th grade...

Date: Sep 23, 2004

What seems to have been largely ignored on this board is the poor judgment shown by a foreign language teacher who repeatedly swears in his/her classes. The only reason for this kind of immature behavior is its shock value. While profanity is hardly an extraordinary event in this day and time, an instructor should leave his/her "salty" language elsewhere.

I am hardly a right wing fanatic, but I would object to a faculty memeber using vulgar language in his/her class. There is no legitimate reason for cursing in the classroom. In fact, such behavior only reinforces the notion in the community that faculty are pompous twits.

If the claims of the student are true, I think you would find that the faculty member would have very little support for this type of childish and inappropriate mode of classroom expression, should Dr. Thames and/or Dr. Pood decide to take disciplinary action.

Date: Sep 23, 2004

Does cursing in a foreign language count?

I think we should put cameras and audiotapes in every classroom and monitor every class.

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Just my thought
"What seems to have been largely ignored on this board is the poor judgment shown by a foreign language teacher who repeatedly swears in his/her classes. The only reason for this kind of immature behavior is its shock value. While profanity is hardly an extraordinary event in this day and time, an instructor should leave his/her "salty" language elsewhere. I am hardly a right wing fanatic, but I would object to a faculty memeber using vulgar language in his/her class. There is no legitimate reason for cursing in the classroom. In fact, such behavior only reinforces the notion in the community that faculty are pompous twits. If the claims of the student are true, I think you would find that the faculty member would have very little support for this type of childish and inappropriate mode of classroom expression, should Dr. Thames and/or Dr. Pood decide to take disciplinary action."

I agree with you on this one, JMT. I also note that you qualify your statement with "(i)f the claims of the student are true," which is also reasonable.

My experience at USM -- admittedly quite a few years back -- was that some faculty are just not really nice people. It's the same in the so-called "real world." Most of the really nasty teachers I had never used profanity; they were just mean-spirited people in general. The only time, however, that I can recall a faculty member using "salty" language in my presence, well, I deserved the cussin' out. I had done something butt-stupid & (I like to think) out of character. By the same token, that instructor was ordinarily a pretty good guy & that's probably why the cussin' was effective & achieved the desired result.

If a faculty member uses foul language in class on a routine basis in situations where "normal" people wouldn't be cussin', I think that faculty member has a bit of a problem.

Again, all this is if the claims of the student are true & I think we all know that is a very big "if."

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
" Interestingly, I don't think they cut any "parts" from the anatomy books... A private, church-related institution may well have an argument for censorship. But I would want someone who teaches my child to have read controversial literature, simply so s/he can make an intelligent decision about what is & what is not appropriate for a particular age group. I think we can all agree that there are plenty of books that are simply inappropriate or incomprehensible for younger kids. (Gratuitous example: 1984 vs Animal Farm.)

I agree, Vic. I read Animal Farm in 9th grade (not in MS), and enjoyed it immensely (it was one of the first "grown-up" novels that I had read). I read 1984 as a senior in high school (in MS), and enjoyed it, too, though it would have disturbed me more had I read it as a 9th grader (and I don't think I would have understood all of the implications in it then, either).

Returning to the USM student who transferred to Belhaven for a moment, what was the rationale for the teacher assigning the book in question? Was it simply a literature assignment, or did the class discuss whether it was appropriate for particular grade levels to read the book? ...

My understanding is that the book was assigned as part of an English lieterature class (Analysis of Lit, ENG 340). Again, if we're going to start banning books based on racy content, then we'll definitely have to start with Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (and has anyone checked out the Song of Solomon in the Bible? Scandalous!).

Date: Sep 23, 2004

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: hot link
"http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/100mostfrequently.htm"
I think one could find worse "need to read" lists. I've read 18 of them, and many are among my favorites: To Kill a Mockingbird, Slaughterhouse Five, Of Mice and Men -- not to mention the Twain. I'll have to read Flowers for Algernon again; I remember it as a sad and gentle story. Who knows where folks can find offense?

Of the ones I've read, the only book I would pan is Final Exit. It could have been condensed into a few pages. I don't suppose a book about how-to-kill-yourself-with-a-minimum-of-fuss-and-bother belongs on every bookshelf.

Date: Sep 23, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"I think one could find worse "need to read" lists. I've read 18 of them, and many are among my favorites: To Kill a Mockingbird, Slaughterhouse Five, Of Mice and Men -- not to mention the Twain. I'll have to read Flowers for Algernon again; I remember it as a sad and gentle story. Who knows where folks can find offense?

Of the ones I've read, the only book I would pan is Final Exit. It could have been condensed into a few pages. I don't suppose a book about how-to-kill-yourself-with-a-minimum-of-fuss-and-bother belongs on every bookshelf."

Even then, I notice that you use "pan" and not "ban" - a world of difference!

Date: Sep 24, 2004

Why To Kill A Mockingbird? When I was an English teacher in North Carolina, we taught it to our 9th graders. They loved it. It taught them something of the historical past and made them think about their own view on race. Or have I just answered my own question?

Date: Sep 24, 2004

From one of the articles my class is discussing this morning:

"But creativity is a threatening subject. Through it man not only competes with the divine and the ancestral (which are sufficiently fraught with danger) but also throws tradition itself into question. Creativity disturbs the world's peace by its insistence that we have both the opportunity and the responsibility to change the world--at least to alter our way of perceiving it. Creativity disrupts the existing order: it speaks of rotten states to contented citizens; it is hopeful and despairing, accepting and rejecting; it is filled with expectation but always suffused with the inevitability of tragedy."

M. Solomon

Date: Sep 24, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: hot link
"http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2004/3_17_2004/ne170304louisiana.shtml"

Interesting story, and with something of a 'local' connection, since Rory Lee was the President of Mississippi College in Clinton.