Bond Issue - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Sep 16, 2004

RE: Bond Issue

Date: Sep 16, 2004

LVN

Understand this. The needs in east Hattiesburg are real, I agree. But, under MS state law the programs that Dupree/Fairly (they are interchangeable) can not be funded by a toursim tax.

If you vote against the bond issue, vote against it because you don't belive in what it's being passed for, don't vote against it because you think that the Fairly/Dupree deal will pass. If you want to see athletics, especially women's athletics improve at Southern Miss, then vote for this tax.

The big problem in Hattiesburg is the convension center, it sipphens millions each year, and is a black hole. Ever wonder why the books at the Convensions Center are never made public? So do I. Do you wonder why the new director of the ADP, left after less than 60 days on the job? So do I, I suspect he found something he didn't want to be a part of.

Date: Sep 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"If you vote against the bond issue, vote against it because you don't belive in what it's being passed for, don't vote against it because you think that the Fairly/Dupree deal will pass. If you want to see athletics, especially women's athletics improve at Southern Miss, then vote for this tax. "

Bingo, Seeker!

LVN, Seeker is right about the "combination" bond to benefit USM & East Hattiesburg: it ain't on the ballot. The vote on November 2 will be single issue: facility improvements at USM.

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/news/stories/20040908/localnews/1199376.html

www.SouthernMissBondIssue.com

Date: Sep 16, 2004

Thanks for the links, ram. I am apparently operating at a higher-than-usual level of confusion. I stand corrected.

Date: Sep 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Thanks for the links, ram. I am apparently operating at a higher-than-usual level of confusion. I stand corrected."

Hey don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Most people are confused on what the bond issue is all about and exactly what it will fund.

If you visit the link you will not find anything about Roberts Stadium, that's because any expanison for football can be paid for privately.

This is why I say that the AD's office has done a poor job at promoting and educating people about this bond.

I hope many of you will take a look at the link that ram provided and learn a bit about what is being proposed before blindly voting againt it becaue of feelings concerning Thames.

Date: Sep 16, 2004

Does anyone remember, "Buiild it and they will come"?

The argument advanced in support of the bond issue for USM

is exactly that. The "economic impact" MUST come from outside

of Hattiesburg for this to be a "win-win" for the voters, and there

is absolutely no evidence that NEW visitors to Hattiesburg will generate

sufficient revenues to support the debt service. This is a "build-it-they-will-

come argument". What happens when NEW revenues are not sufficient

to service the debt is that Hattiesburg is obligated to pay the debt service

and it comes at the expense of other services that COULD have be provided to the

residence of Hattiesburg or even existing services.

"Economic development" is often a shell game and one must constantly be on

guard against those who use the slogan to hide their true motives.

Best advice: THINK about the MOST LIKELY economic impact (that is,

will the new TAX revenues at least equal the NEW debt service. The rest

is irrelevent and designed to confuse.

Pirate

Date: Sep 16, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Seeker
"The sports that will benefit from the Bond Issue are the Title IX sports. I assume a group as educated as you know what Title IX is, so I won't elaborate."

Seeker, Title IX is 32 years old! Are you saying that USM has not complied with Title IX in 32 years and is depending on the bond issue to help rectify gender inequities at USM? Figures. I understand that USM has even recently let its affirmative officer go.

Date: Sep 16, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"

I hope many of you will take a look at the link that ram provided and learn a bit about what is being proposed before blindly voting againt it becaue of feelings concerning Thames."

Like it or not, for many of us the bond issue IS a referendum about Shelby Freloader Thames. Our voices haven't been heard or have been ignored. The ballot box is all that is left for us.

Date: Sep 16, 2004

Originally posted by: Thrifty Shopper

Seeker, Title IX is 32 years old! Are you saying that USM has not complied with Title IX in 32 years and is depending on the bond issue to help rectify gender inequities at USM? Figures. I understand that USM has even recently let its affirmative officer go.

Seeker, while waiting for your reply to my Title IX question, I thought of an equally important three-part question: just how would better athletic facilities at USM have any effect on the number of people who visit Hattiesburg and spend money? How can that be considered economic development? What benefit is there to the city?

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: no bond_age
" Like it or not, for many of us the bond issue IS a referendum about Shelby Freloader Thames. ... "

Okay, this is good. Why haven't any of us thought of this moniker before??? It even has a nice nod to Miles Davis, for those of you in the know.

Shelby Freeloader!

Date: Sep 17, 2004

Thrifty Shopper

I have just a few minutes before my next meeting to answer, so forgive me for being brief.

1) Title IX: USM is in compliance as far as scholarship numbers and sports provided. Although it costs USM literally millions. These facilities improvements will provide mainly the Title IX sports, who can't pay for themselves a better opportunity to compete.

2) How these facilities will draw more people to H'burg. Well, it will allow USM to host tournaments in Tennis, Soccar, Track Meets, Softball and Baseball. Currently USM dosen't have adiquate (sp) dressing and locker facilites to do this. Also, most of USM's venues aren't ADA compliante, so those changes will be made to the baseball and basketball facilities. When these people come to H'burg they stay in Hotel Rooms, eat in resturants, shop in stores.

3) Community use. Hattiesburg High already uses the Track and Field Complex to host events. The Hattiesburg High football will host Meridian in football at MM Roberts next Friday. The reason they want to use MM Roberts is because they are expecting 10-12k people at the game. Hattiesburg's stadium only holds 6k.

Like I said before, if you don't belive in the purpose of this bond vote against it. But, if you vote against it because you think the Fairly/Dupree deal get on the ballot, you're being mislead.

If you vote to hurt Shelby by hurting Southern Miss Athletics - fine, but realize that makes you no better than him. Plus, if Thames wants these improvements made, and the bond dosen't pass, hell he may just take it directly from your departments.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" The needs in east Hattiesburg are real, I agree. But, under MS state law the programs that Dupree/Fairly (they are interchangeable) can not be funded by a toursim tax. "

I hate to get drawn into a side issue, but here goes. The "alternate" bond proposal, may well be a non-starter, but not for the reason that Seeker has offered.

The mayor's proposal -- that (a) was not approved by the Hattiesburg City Council, (b) has not been approved by the Mississippi Legislature, and (c) is not on the ballot -- never was to have been funded by a tourism tax. Rather, it included provision that a $60,000,000 bond issue would be repaid by an increase in general sales tax. Exempted from the increase would have been tax on certain items, including groceries, medicine and tourism.

If anybody wants to know more about Mayor Dupree's proposal, you can call his office at 601-545-4501.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

FYI--I have heard Richard Gianinni complain on numerous occasions about Title IX sports. If he had his way, Division I schools would not compete in women's sports.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

I hope you are correct on the 10-12k fans at the HHS vs Meridian game, but I have never seen that kind of a ground between these two.

Why not HHS vs Oak Grove the last 2 years (prior to new OG stadium)??

Interesting timing at best for this argument

Didnt the athletic department initially veto HHS using Green Coliseum for graduation in May?

Shelby stepped in when a major problem started brewing (maybe about the time the bond issue was being planned?)

Date: Sep 17, 2004

i don't know the sequence of events but the physical plant planned to start renovations to Green coliseum in May. this forced most local high schools to find an alternative site--most went to the Forrest County Multipurpose Center. HHS delayed and suddenly found the multipurpose center was booked for when they wanted their graduation. no place for graduation! USM moved their renovations back and let HHS (and any other local high school) use Green coliseum. moving the date back caused the august graduation for USM to be held at the multipurpose center.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"if you vote against it because you think the Fairly/Dupree deal get on the ballot, you're being mislead."

Seeker, I have no idea what you mean by "the Fairley/Dupree deal" - and I care less. I don't know what a "Fairley" is and I don't know what a "Dupree" is. They sound like the names of a British automobile ("Fairley") and a French automobile ("Dupree."). But this I do know: I am fed up with the politics of USM, the politics of its sometimes overly ambitious and under informed administration, and even the politics of some of its self-serving alleged supporters. Various members of all of those groups don't seem know their head from their a** about what a university is all about. The University of Southern Mississippi is in very deep trouble. USM is rapidly becoming the subject of ridicule across the nation. From what I can see,the IHL board has done nothing clean up this situation. I feel very sorry for the new faculty members at USM, and I feel equally sorry for those who have provided many years of devoted service to USM. I feel sorry for the alumni, and for the parents who looked with pride as their children entered the dormitories and matriculated during the first week of school each year. Seeker, USM is not like other universities. The abuses which I have witnessed first hand would be unthinkable elsewhere. I am qualified by virtue of training and experience to make this assessment. Seeker, your response to my two questions were inadequate. I do not wish to continue this discussion, and I ask that you not respond to this post.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" Most people are confused on what the bond issue is all about and exactly what it will fund. If you visit the link you will not find anything about Roberts Stadium, (italics added) . . .. I hope many of you will take a look at the link that ram provided and learn a bit about what is being proposed before blindly voting againt it becaue of feelings concerning Thames."

Arghh. FUD abounds!

If you visit the link, you WILL find something about Roberts Stadium, just nothing about expansion. To be more exact, you will find that the bond issue will include:

"[R]enovations of concessions and restrooms; concrete waterproofing; press box and ticket office renovations; elevators to the upper concourse, and improved handicap access at M. M. Roberts Stadium.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Thrifty Shopper
""

I am sorry you are too emotional to discuss this issue. But I do understand it is a subject very dear to all of us.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"

I am sorry you are too emotional to discuss this issue. But I do understand it is a subject very dear to all of us."

Maybe if SFT was replaced with a more efficient, knowledgeable and sensitive president, the bond issue would be possible. Right now there appears to be a "civil war" going on at USM. Sometimes it reminds me of Iraq. Faculty, staff and students are waiting for the invader to leave the dome. The IHL has to decide if the benefits of this invasion are worth the casualties the state is suffering.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: A Citizen
"

Maybe if SFT was replaced with a more efficient, knowledgeable and sensitive president, the bond issue would be possible. Right now there appears to be a "civil war" going on at USM. Sometimes it reminds me of Iraq. Faculty, staff and students are waiting for the invader to leave the dome. The IHL has to decide if the benefits of this invasion are worth the casualties the state is suffering."

See I partly agree with you, it is way past time for Thames to go. But, I don't consider the brave soilders that freed the people of Iraq invaders. I am sorry you do, I guess we can count on a no vote on the bond issue and a vote for Kerry for President. Not suprising....just disappointing.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
" See I partly agree with you, it is way past time for Thames to go. But, I don't consider the brave soilders that freed the people of Iraq invaders. I am sorry you do, I guess we can count on a no vote on the bond issue and a vote for Kerry for President. Not suprising....just disappointing."

Seeker, don't go down that road (the political one, I mean). We agree to disagree on many political issues on this board, but we all agree that THAMES MUST GO! Plus, you know what happens when you *assume* something....

NO QUARTER!

PS--Invictus, did Dylan pen the famous line "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose?" If he didn't, I'm sure he meant to!

Date: Sep 17, 2004

RE: Bond Issue + Music Trivia

Date: Sep 17, 2004

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bond Issue

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: A Citizen
" "liberal" isn't a "bad" word to people who know what words mean.) "

Nor is "emotional" -- except when it is used to demean.

Date: Sep 17, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"If you visit the link . . . Roberts Stadium . . . the bond issue will include: "Renovations [of] restrooms . . . press box . . ."

Thanks for accessing the link and pulling out this information, ram. I wonder just how many residents of the Hattiesburg community will benefit from a renovated press box. Could it be that Lee Corso or color commentator Terry Bradshaw will be joining the Hattiesburg community as residents. Or perhaps ESPN is going to "outsource" its sports announcing community residents.And the bathrooms. I wonder if they will be open daily, such as are convenient porta-potties, so that needy residents of the Hattiesburg community can drop in for a brief spell? A very strange way to spend funds supposedly earmarked for the benefit of the Hattiesburg community.

Date: Sep 18, 2004

I hope I am not beating a dead horse here. It may be that the best thing for all of us to do is go upon our quiet ways and vote however we individually decide. The last thing we want to do is take what could be characterized as an anti-USM position.

Having said that, it recently occurred to me that the dual polling place could be a two edged sword. The bond issue is a City of Hattiesburg election, and will be on a separate ballot from the other elections. In some cases, the city vote has to be cast at a separate polling place.

Bond supporters have expressed concern that people who would otherwise support the bond issue, might not go to the trouble to fill out a second ballot or go to a second poll. I think the opposite is arguably more likely, i.e., that there are voters who are not particularly focused on this issue, but who might generally oppose any vote that would result in a tax increase.

I think those general, no-new-taxes voters will be unlikely to go to the trouble to seek out the second ballot, although they would have voted against the bond issue if it had been on the ballot with Bush and Kerry. I think it is possible that the "Win-Win" Committee will be able to inspire voters in support of the bond to go to the additional trouble. Unless the "No Not Now" Committee is able to get out the opposing vote, that could be a deciding factor.

Date: Sep 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"PS--Invictus, did Dylan pen the famous line "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose?" If he didn't, I'm sure he meant to! "

No, that was Kris Kristofferson.

But Bob did write, "Without freedom of speech, I might be in the swamp."

Date: Sep 28, 2004

Then you have the classics:

The line it is drawn/The curse it is cast/The slow one now/Will later be fast
As the present now/Will later be past/The order is/Rapidly fadin'./And the first one now/Will later be last/For the times they are a-changin'.

http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/news/stories/20040928/localnews/1318562.html