Students as Customers - USM Forum -- Message Board

Reporter · Status: Offline

Students as Customers

Curmudgeon · Status: Offline

Doesn't the coast campus have an Office of Customer Services?

Coast Watcher · Status: Offline

Curmudgeon wrote:

Doesn't the coast campus have an Office of Customer Services?

Sure enough. See http://www.usm.edu/gc/gccustomerserv.html

This was one of the wonderful innovations Ken Malone brought us.

Incredulous · Status: Offline

How embarrassing. Now that Malone is gone from the coast, it wouldn't take much to change it to student services.

Advocate · Status: Offline

I am a student and I am a customer. I expect to get value for my money which means I expect to be taught and graded fairly based on my work. If I am not given an appropriate grade, then I cannot learn to improve and I am not getting my money's worth.

qwerty · Status: Offline

Advocate wrote:

I am a student and I am a customer. I expect to get value for my money which means I expect to be taught and graded fairly based on my work. If I am not given an appropriate grade, then I cannot learn to improve and I am not getting my money's worth.

Advocate: You're entitled to much more than an appropriate grade. You are entitled to an instructor whose expertise and training are suited to the course, who leads the course in an interesting and challenging fashion, who is organized and responsive.

Based upon my experience as a faculty member in CoAL, I think USM students get a good value. I'm proud of the teaching that goes on in the college. I hope your experience has been positive.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

Advocate wrote:

I am a student and I am a customer. I expect to get value for my money which means I expect to be taught and graded fairly based on my work. If I am not given an appropriate grade, then I cannot learn to improve and I am not getting my money's worth.

Advocate, I think most at USM are getting a better education than they actually want. My experience was that too many students at USM lacked preparation and really shouldn't be in a university. Too many wanted the highest possible grade for the least effort on their part. (I felt like the coach of a team that wanted to win the championship but refused to practice.

) These students say they want an education and a job, but I think if they could get the job without the education they would jump at the chance.

I also had the pleasure of teaching some hardworking, excellent students. They were what kept me going until Shelby invaded the Dome. I hope you are one of these students.

Now, Advocate, the tough question: How does a students determine if they are getting "an appropriate grade"? You can't just use feeling. I had students who worked very hard but had deficiencies which prevented them from performing and mastering the subject. They were mad "customers", but still failed the course.

Advocate · Status: Offline

Alas, I am an older student therefore I know what it means to work hard. I also know the difference between working hard and working smart.

I've been around the block enough to know my deficiencies and the areas where I need to put extra effort to compensate for those short comings. I know when I get an A I don't deserve and I know when I get a grade that I do deserve. Oh, to go back to my undergraduate days at USM and have the same work ethic and attitude I have today.

My money is hard-earned, therefore I expect value. I must admit I have had a few (very few) professors who are too interested in being the "fun guy" when I would prefer they spent more time teaching. When we were young, we loved the "fun guy" who gives everyone great grades but today I want more than that. You can be fun as long as I learn.

The saddest thing that most students don't understand is that they will most likely never be in another environment where everyone works so hard to help them succeed. The opportunity to go to a university and be educated is truly a blessing.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

Advocate wrote:

Alas, I am an older student therefore I know what it means to work hard. I also know the difference between working hard and working smart.

I've been around the block enough to know my deficiencies and the areas where I need to put extra effort to compensate for those short comings. I know when I get an A I don't deserve and I know when I get a grade that I do deserve. Oh, to go back to my undergraduate days at USM and have the same work ethic and attitude I have today.

My money is hard-earned, therefore I expect value. I must admit I have had a few (very few) professors who are too interested in being the "fun guy" when I would prefer they spent more time teaching. When we were young, we loved the "fun guy" who gives everyone great grades but today I want more than that. You can be fun as long as I learn.

The saddest thing that most students don't understand is that they will most likely never be in another environment where everyone works so hard to help them succeed. The opportunity to go to a university and be educated is truly a blessing.

I too have problems with the "fun guy" professor. Unfortunately, they usually get better student evaluations than the prof who makes students work and learn something to get a grade. It sometimes appears that this administration wants more "student customers" and more "fun profs" so that the unprepared "customers" won't flunk out. That's called "retention".

Boy, is education a great business, or what?!!

Obviousman · Status: Offline

LeftASAP wrote:
Advocate, I think most at USM are getting a better education than they actually want. My experience ...

Leftie, After finishing a reading assignment, I think you might change to an opinion that that many at USM don't know what education is. The Southeast Education Foundation's release from last year, "Miles to Go Mississippi", paints a very critical picture of Mississippi's support of education and the capability of those it educates. The outcome is the same regardless of public vs private schools - it is bleak.

But, a BIG BUT, the do make a good case for basic education as a route for economic development. Much better than our current Dome occupants route for making a select few into millionaires through pillaging of the pork pie.

There are copies to be had at some local businesses or for download at www.southeasteducation.com under the "Publications" tab.

OM

First Ant at the Picnic · Status: Offline

Grade Inflation

First Ant at the Picnic · Status: Offline

RE: Students as Customers

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

Obviousman wrote:

Leftie, After finishing a reading assignment, I think you might change to an opinion that that many at USM don't know what education is. The Southeast Education Foundation's release from last year, "Miles to Go Mississippi", paints a very critical picture of Mississippi's support of education and the capability of those it educates. The outcome is the same regardless of public vs private schools - it is bleak.

But, a BIG BUT, the do make a good case for basic education as a route for economic development. Much better than our current Dome occupants route for making a select few into millionaires through pillaging of the pork pie.

There are copies to be had at some local businesses or for download at www.southeasteducation.com under the "Publications" tab.

OM

Thanks. I'll check it out, Obviousman. I hope reading it doesn't get me too depressed.

Obviousman · Status: Offline

Obviousman wrote:
... www.southeasteducation.com under the "Publications" tab.

OM

Doh! http://www.southerneducation.org/pdf/Ms%20MTG%20Report-Final%20Version.pdf

Dr VanNostren · Status: Offline

I think it's better for students to think of themselves as the client rather than the customer. In that relationship, the client hires USM to educate him/her, but there is a facet to the relationship that is lacking in the customer analogy: the client has responsibilities. Plus, the situation is contingent on the client's situation.

For example, an individual may hire a lawyer to handle his/her divorce. There is no guarantee that the client can come out OK in the end (especially if the client has done bad things), and the best possible outcome is reached by the client holding up his or her end of the relationship and doing what the lawyer recommends when the lawyer recommends it.

The "student as customer" model is so badly flawed that any freshman business student ought to be able poke holes in it using simple business philosophies to support his or her argument.

Advocate · Status: Offline

Dr VanNostren wrote:

I think it's better for students to think of themselves as the client rather than the customer. In that relationship, the client hires USM to educate him/her, but there is a facet to the relationship that is lacking in the customer analogy: the client has responsibilities. Plus, the situation is contingent on the client's situation.

You have a point. I think client sounds better than customer, but I don't know if that is correct either. A student is one who studies and to study is the "application of the mental faculties to the acquisition of knowledge." That means there is a much larger commitment to work on the student's part than just being a customer or a client. But I still believe that as a STUDENT I deserve a commitment from the teacher as well.

Curmudgeon · Status: Offline

A colleague of mine used to say that professors were like dentists in that we both deal in a service our clients need but don't want at the time.

BAD · Status: Offline

How about consultee? And, in the words of Peter Griffin, this is getting "shallow and pedantic."