MSU enrolment numbers - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Sep 1, 2004

MSU enrolment numbers

Date: Sep 1, 2004

Are comparative enrollment figures available for USM and Ole Miss? Perhaps they'll be disseminated by Ms. Mader at the Golden Wiener Revelry this afternoon?

AE

Date: Sep 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Austin Eagle
"Are comparative enrollment figures available for USM and Ole Miss? Perhaps they'll be disseminated by Ms. Mader at the Golden Wiener Revelry this afternoon? AE"

No enrollment numbers were given at Revelry, but won't there be an enrollment report submitted to IHL after the tenth class day, which is Friday the 3rd?

Date: Sep 1, 2004

correct. the msu report suggests that the IHL made a decision to use unduplicated headcounts.

Date: Sep 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Palindrome
"MSU just released enrolment data for fall of 2004. Given the earlier interest in enrolemts I though it may be of interest for this board. A full official press release is listed at: http://www.ur.msstate.edu/news/stories/2004/enrollment04.asp Highlights Mississippi State is enrolling more new freshmen, more new transfer students, and more new graduate students this fall as part of a total unduplicated headcount of 15,934 students (16,173 last year). 1,752 first-time freshmen (1,688 last year). 1,549 New transfer students (1,480) 855 new grad students (826). A very large graduating class led to the overall decrease. About 76 percent of this year’s students are Mississippi residents 18.6 percent are African-American. New freshmen had an average ACT composite score of 23.3. 33 new freshman National Merit Scholars (24 last year). 81 percent of fall 2003 freshmen enrolled for the current semester."

Nice spin for an enrollment decrease.

Date: Sep 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"correct. the msu report suggests that the IHL made a decision to use unduplicated headcounts."

I think you are correct. Of course, unduplicated headcount favors MSU and Ole Miss over Southern Miss. What other decision could the "unbiased" IHL board make?

Date: Sep 1, 2004

i don't know how much it favors the other universities (state or ole miss), if at all. interesting, i know that USM cancels registrations for non-payment by the 10th day (or the day after) while Ole Miss (and maybe MSU) does not. They keep billing students. So at Ole Miss non-paying students are on the books much longer than they are at USM.

Date: Sep 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i don't know how much it favors the other universities (state or ole miss), if at all. interesting, i know that USM cancels registrations for non-payment by the 10th day (or the day after) while Ole Miss (and maybe MSU) does not. They keep billing students. So at Ole Miss non-paying students are on the books much longer than they are at USM."

Our duplicated numbers are normally higher because of the number of students we have enrolled at both Hattiesburg and Gulf Park. State and Ole Miss don't have off campus centers that are as large as Gulf Park.

Date: Sep 1, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Yep
"I think you are correct. Of course, unduplicated headcount favors MSU and Ole Miss over Southern Miss. What other decision could the "unbiased" IHL board make?"

What is the purpose of these enrollments? Bragging rights?

For funding purposes, FTE enrollment is the only thing that makes sense, because it is based on students' course loads. Unduplicated enrollment shows how many people an institution "touches" & is easy to understand. Duplicated enrollment is a much less useful statistic & can be downright confusing.

Date: Sep 2, 2004

headcount is bragging rights--correct. funding formulas use end-of-term FTE enrollments. the argument for duplicated enrollments is that it gives you an idea of how many students you have to provide services for. You have to provide certain services for students at both campuses at which they take classes (computer labs, etc.).

Date: Sep 2, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"headcount is bragging rights--correct. funding formulas use end-of-term FTE enrollments. the argument for duplicated enrollments is that it gives you an idea of how many students you have to provide services for. You have to provide certain services for students at both campuses at which they take classes (computer labs, etc.). "

Then, the best approach would be to list three categories: Hattiesburg campus, Gulf Coast campus & cross-campus. How large is the cross-campus group?

Without knowing the students' course loads, it's still just a quick'n'dirty for planning services.

Date: Sep 2, 2004

on a really technical note the divisor in computing FTE enrollment (total SCH's/hours for a full time student) varies from one reporting unit to another. IHL uses 15 as a full time load and so you divide SCH's by 15. SACS uses 12 so you divide by 12. FTE enrollment as reported to IHL and SACS will therefore differ. ah, the world of academic accounting!

Date: Sep 2, 2004

Some agencies use 9 semester credit hours as the divisor for graduate students. And yet others count full-time students as one FTE regardless of the number of hours taken. (In that scheme, an undergrad taking 18 hours is one FTE, even though the formula would call them 1.5 FTE.)

Some years ago, a friend who is a college registrar was asked how many students attended his institution. He replied, "What's a student?"

If someone walks up to my & asks, "Are you Invictus?" I reply, "It depends on who's asking!"

Date: Sep 7, 2004

Fall Enrollment Hits Record with Nearly 16,500 Students
Largest Increases in Graduate Health Sciences, Applied Sciences and Education Programs

09/04/2004

OXFORD, Miss. A record 16,498 students are enrolled this fall at the University of Mississippi, according to figures released Saturday. The total unduplicated headcount represents 945 more students enrolled this fall than last on UM's Oxford, Tupelo and Southaven campuses and University of Mississippi Medical Center (UMMC) in Jackson a 6.1 percent increase.

UM's total unduplicated enrollment last year was 15,553 students.

"The increase in enrollment is a reflection of the respect students and their parents have for the quality of our academic programs," said Chancellor Robert Khayat. "Dedicated, well-known and highly regarded faculty, widespread awareness of the value of a degree from this university, a beautiful campus located in an ideal college town and a unique environment attract students from across the state, nation and world."

Enrollment rose in each school and college on both the Oxford and Medical Center campuses except one, where enrollment remained the same. The largest growth in enrollment 33 percent is in graduate programs at UMMC, and the Master's of Science in Nursing, in particular.

"We have enjoyed a steady increase in enrollment in the MSN program over the past two years," said Dr. Sharon A. Lobert, professor and graduate program director in the School of Nursing. "We've had tremendous success recruiting our own undergraduate students, and opportunities in the marketplace have attracted others to obtain advanced degrees in nursing."

On the Oxford campus, double-digit increases occurred in the School of Applied Sciences (25.4 percent), School of Education (10.1 percent) and number of transfer students (19.6 percent). Applied sciences includes the departments of communicative disorders; family and consumer sciences; legal studies; health, exercise science and recreation management; and social work.

The College of Liberal Arts and School of Business Administration remain UM's largest academic units, enrolling 5,228 and 2,922 students, respectively.

The preliminary figures, calculated Sept. 4 after the 10th day of class, also include record numbers of Mississippi residents and African Americans. More than 70 percent of this year's students are Mississippians (11,571), and more than 13 percent are black (2,180).

Enrollment on the main campus in Oxford is 13,513; 2,003 students are attending UMMC, 486 are taking classes in Tupelo and 691 are enrolled in Southaven. These totals include students who may be taking classes at more than one campus.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

How cool is that? Quality and academic used in the same sentence!

I read it quickly but I don't think I picked up world class, first, only, or largest anywhere in the text.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

After reading the Ole Miss story, does anyone have any doubt about the future of USM, both in its programs and in its prestige?

This is exactly what Ole Miss and State desired but it only seemed possible in their wildest dreams. Thank you, SFT. The upstart from the South is the scandal of academia and this fact is not lost on the citizenry.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

One of the most striking figures is the 19.6% increase in transfer students. That didn't used to be a large market for Ole Miss.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

OK, State and Ole Miss have their numbers...just where are ours? Hopefully they will compute them the same way as "non-duplicate" students. Is this terminology the result of USMron last year?

Date: Sep 7, 2004

The Rebs haven't counted the Medical school in their attendance figures in the past. I guess that is one way to get an enrollment increase.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Ole Miss playing the game
"The Rebs haven't counted the Medical school in their attendance figures in the past. I guess that is one way to get an enrollment increase."

Check out the last paragraph. There is no attempt to deceive. They are very clear as to how many students are at each campus. USM's enrollment usually includes all branches as well.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

part of what our enrollment numbers last year did is force the IHL to make universities report their numbers in an honest and straightforward manner. you see mention of duplicated and non-duplicated enrollments--prior to this year, i don't recall that being reported. despite what some at USM want to believe we were more responsible about reporting our enrollments than other universities were. State and Ole Miss still don't cancel enrollments on the 10th day for non-payment of tuition. as best as I know we still do. State and Ole Miss carry those people their books for a long time.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"part of what our enrollment numbers last year did is force the IHL to make universities report their numbers in an honest and straightforward manner. you see mention of duplicated and non-duplicated enrollments--prior to this year, i don't recall that being reported. despite what some at USM want to believe we were more responsible about reporting our enrollments than other universities were. State and Ole Miss still don't cancel enrollments on the 10th day for non-payment of tuition. as best as I know we still do. State and Ole Miss carry those people their books for a long time. "

Not exactly, Stinky. I believe you are correct about State and Ole Miss, but USM does not drop people for non payment until after they are counted on the tenth day. As a practical matter, this is often the 12th or 13th day. That makes it a level playing field.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

USM's obsession with enrollment is going to be its undoing. It will be hard enough as it is to rise above the bottom 17 or 18 schools in the bottom tier. Yes, the enrollment obsession continues. USM should truncate its enrollment anc concentrate on quality. Miami-Dade Community College has an enrollment of 49,000. Does that bring them increased academic recognition?

Date: Sep 7, 2004

When some fraction of state appropriations are let based on enrollment, enrollment will always be an obsession. But the 10th day figures are purely "bragging rights" numbers -- the money's in what remains at the end of the term.

Personally, I've always felt that graduation rates, retention rates & numerous other metrics that are better indicators of the quality of the instruction provided by an institution should play a more prominent role in funding formulas, but I also recognize that funding formulas are devised by folks who have political agendas & frequently aren't all that well-versed in what education is about anyway.

Anyone who hasn't visited the Ole Miss campus at Oxford in a while needs to do so. The reasons for their growth are obvious. It's not purely the "they have more money" factor, either. It's clear that management has a vision for how money should be spent & how to bring a lot of "little touches" together to make a big impression.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

flash--you may be right about USM. i know someone who talked to sam thomas two weeks ago. we may keep them on until the 12th or 14th day, MSU and Ole Miss keep them on well past then. at those places a student must take an action to drop before those two institutions will drop them. we don't--they're dropped whether they take an option to drop or not.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

plus, their new inter-session is designed to help students who have problems in the fall come back for the spring semester. heard it from a relatively high-level administrator up there.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"flash--you may be right about USM. i know someone who talked to sam thomas two weeks ago. we may keep them on until the 12th or 14th day, MSU and Ole Miss keep them on well past then. at those places a student must take an action to drop before those two institutions will drop them. we don't--they're dropped whether they take an option to drop or not. "

I think it is just a different collections philosophy. Going way back to Tom Estes (VP for Financial Affairs in the 80's) and including Sam Thomas, the USM business office has always been well administered. Getting the money up front has many advantages for the institution.

Date: Sep 7, 2004

it's more than a collections policy. it is a policy that impacts enrollment figures. when people get "wound up" about enrollment numbers they have to remember that collections policy impact those numbers.