daily rumor mill #85 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 18, 2004

daily rumor mill #85

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: gurunuburg
5. More rumors about TH's plans to take away some USM faculty/staff. Still waiting for verification on a couple. "

Sometimes wording is coincidental. In its best form, it is not.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: gurunuburg
" 2. Word coming out now about serious inconsistencies with the merit raises. E-mail from artsy just in !!: "Have you seen that new thread on the board? .... The AD in CEP said that people who got mid-year raises in January remained eligible for merit raises this time? That goes against what I've heard about my college.." Thanks artsy. "

Looks like Mitch has some explaining to do. I'm interested in further clarification/explanation on this statement from him:

"Market value" discrepancy adjustments were also included in the equation, based on average college salary at rank and proportion of that due to "compression."

Mitch, would you mind going further into this one for everyone?

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: gurunuburg
"4. Get ready for an explosion. . . when USM students stroll over to the textbook center to purchase their textbook load. "

My student alerts me to the fact that I will see an almost $200 charge for two thin textbooks purchased yesterday. This is noteworthy primarily due to the fact that such exorbitance shocked even my student.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"My student alerts me to the fact that I will see an almost $200 charge for two thin textbooks purchased yesterday. This is noteworthy primarily due to the fact that such exorbitance shocked even my student."

Maybe this will open up some stiff competition by private vendors adjacent to campus.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"My student alerts me to the fact that I will see an almost $200 charge for two thin textbooks purchased yesterday. This is noteworthy primarily due to the fact that such exorbitance shocked even my student."

B&N runs the bookstore at Ole Myth. I can testify that this report sounds very normal & there's also going to be a good chance that the book(s) won't be in stock either. Buy-back rates at UM hover around 3% of purchase price.

For the course I am now teaching (not at USM), the textbook runs about $150. It is now, however, "thin" & is a book that most majors will keep for their professional library. And the publisher did begin bundling the companion CD-ROM, which is excellent & used to sell separately for about $75. (Compared with the pre-bundling price, the text & CD-ROM at $150 now cost about $25 less than they did when sold separately.)

If I were teaching a course that had a "thin" textbook that I didn't expect students to retain & believed the cost was unrealistic to expect students to bear, I think I'd be assembling my own "handbook" & having it available at Kinkos for copying costs...

If someone set up an off-campus book rental or subscription service, I think they might be pleasantly surprised.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Yu-Gi-Oh!
" Looks like Mitch has some explaining to do. I'm interested in further clarification/explanation on this statement from him: "Market value" discrepancy adjustments were also included in the equation, based on average college salary at rank and proportion of that due to "compression." Mitch, would you mind going further into this one for everyone?"

Maybe for the truty working on the chain gang. I think Yu-Gi-Oh wants to know how it was determined for the guards.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" B&N runs the bookstore at Ole Myth. I can testify that this report sounds very normal & there's also going to be a good chance that the book(s) won't be in stock either. Buy-back rates at UM hover around 3% of purchase price. For the course I am now teaching (not at USM), the textbook runs about $150. It is now, however, "thin" & is a book that most majors will keep for their professional library. And the publisher did begin bundling the companion CD-ROM, which is excellent & used to sell separately for about $75. (Compared with the pre-bundling price, the text & CD-ROM at $150 now cost about $25 less than they did when sold separately.) If I were teaching a course that had a "thin" textbook that I didn't expect students to retain & believed the cost was unrealistic to expect students to bear, I think I'd be assembling my own "handbook" & having it available at Kinkos for copying costs... If someone set up an off-campus book rental or subscription service, I think they might be pleasantly surprised. "

Does the Campus Book Mart (right across from campus) still exist? Or has it gone the way of all the good stuff (Beagle Bagel! How I missed that place!)?

Date: Aug 18, 2004

Yes the Campus Book Mart is still there.

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Yu-Gi-Oh!
" Looks like Mitch has some explaining to do. I'm interested in further clarification/explanation on this statement from him: "Market value" discrepancy adjustments were also included in the equation, based on average college salary at rank and proportion of that due to "compression." Mitch, would you mind going further into this one for everyone?"

Geez Louise, Rumor man and others. Why are you guys are so surprised that:

1. Different colleges took somewhat different approaches to raises? (Isn't having control of our budgets and destiny at the college level a good thing?)

2. That a rumor on this board could be so wrong? (if all rumors panned out, this thread wouldn't be as entertaining)

Didn't any of you hear two Deans describe their raise plans at the PC? Is it THAT tough to get your hands on a document publically disseminated to all faculty from COEP? Do I have to do all the work for Artsy?

What's so complex about the statement in the quote? You have a person that is underpaid compared to college rank, by, say, 15%. They've published consistently and taught great classes over the years. They're behind because new hires came in at relatively higher salaries. The formula then adjusts the raise up a bit to help to make up, in part, for this discrepancy. Not perfect. But would you argue that this is unfair or unjustified? Geez Louise! You guys really want to put the screws to our faculty.

Okay, how's this for economic development? I'll put the formula on E-Bay, and if you meet or exceed the reserve price, you can license it for next year. My grad students need a raise, so bid heartily.

2004 AD

Date: Aug 18, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Geez Louise!
"Why are you guys are so surprised . . . Didn't any of you hear . . . You guys really . . .

Geez Louise! Please direct types of comments and questions you pose to a specific poster of posters. This board is comprised of a variety of opinions from a variety of posters. One glove does not fit all. The board is a discussion of some academic issues which are particularly important at the present time. "You guys . . . you guys . . . you guys." But don't worry, when you've lived down here long enough you'l lose that Brooklyn accent.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: gurunuburg
4. Get ready for an explosion in about 120 hours from now, when USM students stroll over to the textbook center to purchase their textbook load. Word from all ops and others --- boy are they in for the shock of their lives! Get ready for the juggernaut of complaints. Thanks ops and others.

I've gone to the USM Textbook Center twice and it looks more organized than ever, with additional check-out stations, even. My inquiries were answered promptly and courteously. All the books I ordered for my classes were in with one exception, and a note on that one indicated that they'd queried the publisher and were expecting it shortly. The prices for the new books are the nationally advertized list prices as far as I can tell, and the manager confirmed that the Textbook Center hadn't raised prices on any of them. (Remember that publishers keep raising the prices because they're losing money with so many used book sales. Publishing has been an iffy business since Caxton, folks.) In short, it looks as though service may be greatly improved. We should give these people the same benefit of the doubt we hope folks will extend to us.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Junk Yard Dog
" "You guys . . . you guys . . . you guys." But don't worry, when you've lived down here long enough you'l lose that Brooklyn accent."

JYD, do you mean "yous guys" and is that reason to criticize a pretty decent post? Awww, fugedaboudit.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Wordsmith
"JYD, do you mean "yous guys" and is that reason to criticize a pretty decent post? Awww, fugedaboudit."

No. no. It's "youse guys." And its a Bronx accent, not Brooklyn (answer to a previous poster). Bada-bing. Bada-boom.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: 2004 AD
"No. no. It's "youse guys." And its a Bronx accent, not Brooklyn (answer to a previous poster). Bada-bing. Bada-boom."

Ah well, I tried!!!

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Junk Yard Dog
"Geez Louise! Please direct types of comments and questions you pose to a specific poster of posters. This board is comprised of a variety of opinions from a variety of posters. One glove does not fit all. The board is a discussion of some academic issues which are particularly important at the present time. "You guys . . . you guys . . . you guys." But don't worry, when you've lived down here long enough you'l lose that Brooklyn accent."

After over eight years in the deep South, Ah wreckin' that dawag won hun', yawl. My god, you're right! No more Bronx accent. Give this carpetbagger some grits!

Come on. This board is a DISCUSSION of important academic issues? Maybe that is the hope of some of us who keep trying to post information that is accurate and relevant to faculty without getting flamed. Many of the posts on this board, however, are simply rotting tripe. Vicious and unfounded accusations and personal attacks having nothing to do with faculty welfare or professional interests are too common here to characterize this board as a serious discussion of important academic issues. This is neither right nor wrong. The board is what it is.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
""

Jameela, now go over to Campus Book Mart and compare your prices with those at the textbook center. If there is no problem, you may be right. On the other hand, there is a $15 dollar discrepancy between the used prices for my book, and the TC doesn't even have any used books to sell, while CBM does. The discrepancy between the new book prices for mine between the two is even larger. Remember, we are in Hattiesburg, not Berkeley (or even Austin for that matter), and book prices will be a serious issue with our students.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

Hey, Sweetie, Cool your jets. I think JYD was trying to be funny, with the "you guys" thing.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: o-town
"
Jameela, now go over to Campus Book Mart and compare your prices with those at the textbook center. If there is no problem, you may be right. On the other hand, there is a $15 dollar discrepancy between the used prices for my book, and the TC doesn't even have any used books to sell, while CBM does. The discrepancy between the new book prices for mine between the two is even larger. Remember, we are in Hattiesburg, not Berkeley (or even Austin for that matter), and book prices will be a serious issue with our students.
"

Please let me comment, I went to the Text Book Center yesterday and checked on my text books and found several used books. I agree with my friend Jemeela, let's see what happens. BTW Jameela, I hope you enjoyed your summer and can start the year off with your favorite: Cherry Coke

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
""

"We should give these people the same benefit of the doubt that we hope folks will extend to us."

There has not been one poster on this board that has extended ANY benefit of doubt to anyone. This board has been bash and go! The truth has never been discussed rationally at all. Difference of opinion is not accepted!

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
" My inquiries were answered promptly and courteously. . . . The prices for the new books are the nationally advertized list prices as far as I can tell, and the manager confirmed that the Textbook Center hadn't raised prices on any of them. (Remember that publishers keep raising the prices because they're losing money with so many used book sales. Publishing has been an iffy business since Caxton, folks.) . . . We should give these people the same benefit of the doubt we hope folks will extend to us. "

Since I originally expressed concern about the books I was buying, the least I could do is compare. I found a site, gettextbooks.com, that does an automatic comparison of prices at various sellers. We paid $98 in the USM Textbook Center for a text that has a price range from $40 to $108. The young woman who answered my questions was indeed courteous.

I have to consider it a matter of convenience and peace of mind. The student who buys through the textbook center may be paying a moderate premium to (a) get all material at one source and in one trip, and (b) has relative assurance that the book is sure to be the correct edition required for the course. Refunds and replacement would be easier, too.

On a more general note, I suspect that any problems with outsourcing through Aramark (?) and B&N will not be immediately apparent. Based on conversations with friends who have experienced outsourcing in the business world, the real problems develop over time.

The outside contractors base their proposals on the known situation. They intentionally paint a rosy picture. They price their replacement service so that in the short term things look good: better product, lower price. The customers (e.g., students, faculty, administration) will be satisfied. Word of "Mission Accomplished" will spread (say, for instance, in the Natchez Democrat).

After the transition is complete, the new contractor/vendor is in the driver's seat. It is no longer a level playing field. That is when price goes up, service down. Any outside competitor interested in taking over the operation has to price in the cost of coming in and starting from scratch, whereas the present contractor only has to maintain the status quo. For the customer to make a change, the situation has to deteriorate to the point that the high cost of changing is worthwhile. Such a bad situation usually has to continue for a while, too. The customer wants to believe (a) that a return to the original "rosy picture" is possible, and (b) that if costs must go up, better that they go up on someone else's watch.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Doubtful
" "We should give these people the same benefit of the doubt that we hope folks will extend to us." There has not been one poster on this board that has extended ANY benefit of doubt to anyone. This board has been bash and go! The truth has never been discussed rationally at all. Difference of opinion is not accepted!"

Artistic expression= -10

Element of truth= -50

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Doubtful
" There has not been one poster on this board that has extended ANY benefit of doubt to anyone. This board has been bash and go! The truth has never been discussed rationally at all. Difference of opinion is not accepted!"

All generalizations are inherently inaccurate.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
" Artistic expression= -10 Element of truth= -50 "

Oh, I forgot:

Wanton Capitalization= +10

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" ...After the transition is complete, the new contractor/vendor is in the driver's seat. It is no longer a level playing field. That is when price goes up, service down. Any outside competitor interested in taking over the operation has to price in the cost of coming in and starting from scratch, whereas the present contractor only has to maintain the status quo. For the customer to make a change, the situation has to deteriorate to the point that the high cost of changing is worthwhile. Such a bad situation usually has to continue for a while, too. The customer wants to believe (a) that a return to the original "rosy picture" is possible, and (b) that if costs must go up, better that they go up on someone else's watch."

Wow, replace "contractor/vendor" with "university president" for an amazing look at the "business model" of education.

Can we outsource Shelboo?

Date: Aug 19, 2004

Ram makes some interesting points that can be extrapolated to other areas of the university. Accepting students outside the normal screening channels has the immediate effect of increasing enrollment numbers. The longer term effects of this do not appear until some time down the line. Hiring adjuncts and instructors (even good ones) accomplishes the dual objectives of covering the classes and lowering costs but it certainly changes the nature of the faculty body.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: William "Refrigerator" Perry
"Hey, Sweetie, Cool your jets. I think JYD was trying to be funny, with the "you guys" thing. "

Did I come across as angry? Not at all. I like JYDs posts. I just heard Curtis Sliwa on the radio, and Yankee wit often sounds just plain old edgy and mean (sorry guys).

In the same vein, JYD thinks I'm funny? You mean funny like a clown? (Followed after some more patter by a few rounds from a 45). Name that movie for two EC points.

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: William "Refrigerator" Perry
"Hey, Sweetie, Cool your jets. I think JYD was trying to be funny, with the "you guys" thing. "

I think so, too. "You guys" isn't the real mark of Bronx-speak.

A comment from a native speaker of Bronxese would be more like: "

! That

ing

er in the

ing Dome is

ing determined to

all you

ers! So

ing

it, youse guys!"

Which is probably how a lot of us feel, regardless of where we come from!

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Doubtful
" "We should give these people the same benefit of the doubt that we hope folks will extend to us." There has not been one poster on this board that has extended ANY benefit of doubt to anyone. This board has been bash and go! The truth has never been discussed rationally at all. Difference of opinion is not accepted!"

What are you talking about? All opinions are accepted here with a mouse click. The vast majority of posters are people of good will who care very much about our faculty and interests. There are even a few elegantly written pieces posted here that are good enough to be published in the Chronicle with little editing. The board, however, is not an across the board forum for serious academic discussion. If it was such a forum, your post would not have appeared here. Sorry Doubtful.

Mitch

Date: Aug 19, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" I think so, too. "You guys" isn't the real mark of Bronx-speak. A comment from a native speaker of Bronxese would be more like: "! That ing er in the ing Dome is ing determined to all you ers! So ing it, youse guys!" Which is probably how a lot of us feel, regardless of where we come from!"

I was wondering why Betty Williamson, my admin assistant, keeps threatening to wash my mouth out with soap. I thought it was a personal hygiene thing.