The Problem of Crowd Instinct - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Aug 12, 2004

The Problem of Crowd Instinct

Date: Aug 12, 2004

Are you related to Chess? Your post is just a cryptic. What the heck are you talking about?

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"Are you related to Chess? Your post is just a cryptic. What the heck are you talking about?"

"Your post is just as cryptic" that should read.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: askTRUTHwhoIam
"Human behavior of crowds is much different from their behavior as individuals. Acting collectively and anonymously on this board helps allow people to participate in acts of barbarism they would never engage in as an individual. People acting en masse are not restrained by individual conscience or moral scruples. This crowd instinct, which is in abundance on this board, takes over and shuts down individual judgments regarding right and wrong."

askTruthwhoIam,

Group efforts are always barbaric? Nonsense. How about Jerry Lewis' MD telethon? How about the group efforts of Habitat for Humanity? How about community mobilization efforts when a child is lost? How about group efforts to rescue lost mountain climbers, or a lost dog? How about church efforts when a member of their flock (or anyone, for that matter) is down and out? Barbaric? Lacking conscience or moral scruples? I think you overgeneralize.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

kick

Date: Aug 12, 2004

Actually, I do understand that post. It's not that group events always lead to bad outcomes. Rather there are principles of group dynamics that can, in many circumstances, lead to bad outcomes. Social psychologists are well aware of such phenomena as group conformity, diffusion of responsibility, the "risky shift" effect, modeling effects on destructive behaviors, group think, and so forth. Although many group efforts have positive outcomes (e.g., charity drives for an uninsured medical patient), get a group of folks together in a highly charged emotional atmosphere, denigrate and dehumanize a common target, provide the opportunity for anonymous attacks on the target, and, presto, you can have a Pogrom, race riot, KKK (or the more contemporary CCC-a favorite of many MS politicians), a Spanish Inquisition, or a Cold War standoff. I don't see eye to eye with all the posts here, and many just seem plain boneheaded. However, I am not at all worried that Truth (hi AH) and the rest of the crowd is about to form the next National Socialist party and march brown-shirted in jack-boots down Hardy St. An interesting visual though!

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: askTRUTHwhoIam
"Human behavior of crowds is much different from their behavior as individuals."

I presume by "crowd" you reference your many pseudonyms. Agreed, but I think "crude" is closer than "barbaric." Besides, you serve a useful purpose. We might be able to forgive and forget, but then one of "you" posts, reminding us how deceitful, mean-spirited and foolish the opposition is. Thanks for the focus you provide.

NO FREAKING QUARTER

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like social psych!
"Actually, I do understand that post. It's not that group events always lead to bad outcomes. Rather there are principles of group dynamics that can, in many circumstances, lead to bad outcomes. Social psychologists are well aware of such phenomena as group conformity, diffusion of responsibility, the "risky shift" effect, modeling effects on destructive behaviors, group think, and so forth. Although many group efforts have positive outcomes (e.g., charity drives for an uninsured medical patient), get a group of folks together in a highly charged emotional atmosphere, denigrate and dehumanize a common target, provide the opportunity for anonymous attacks on the target, and, presto, you can have a Pogrom, race riot, KKK (or the more contemporary CCC-a favorite of many MS politicians), a Spanish Inquisition, or a Cold War standoff. I don't see eye to eye with all the posts here, and many just seem plain boneheaded. However, I am not at all worried that Truth (hi AH) and the rest of the crowd is about to form the next National Socialist party and march brown-shirted in jack-boots down Hardy St. An interesting visual though! "

Exactly. I do understand the thoughts behind the badly-worded post, but did not understand its implications for this board...and I still don't.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like social psych!
(. . . the CCC-a favorite of many MS politicians)

Son, down here in the Magnolia state, when we hear "CCC" we think of the Civilian Conservation Corps - another group effort that did lots of good in Mississippi during the Great Depression era.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Tinctoris
" I presume by "crowd" you reference your many pseudonyms. Agreed, but I think "crude" is closer than "barbaric." Besides, you serve a useful purpose. We might be able to forgive and forget, but then one of "you" posts, reminding us how deceitful, mean-spirited and foolish the opposition is. Thanks for the focus you provide. NO FREAKING QUARTER"

Tinctoris, I like your analysis best of all! The troll has provided his (her? are there female trolls?) own explanation for his/her seeming schizophrenia! In other words, when in doubt, create a virtual crowd!

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"Exactly. I do understand the thoughts behind the badly-worded post, but did not understand its implications for this board...and I still don't. "

AH-

So many posts with so few implications. It does seem at times that one has to surf through quite a bit of detritus to get to a diamond here.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

Academics, somewhat like physicians, and to a lesser degree like lawyers, tend not to be "groupish" sorts of people. (Talk about herding cats!) One of the attractions of scholarly life is its freedom; it tends to draw the more independent thinkers and free spirits of the world. A group less likely to fall into mob behaviour cannot be imagined. The 430 votes were a miracle -- the Vatican really needs to have somebody on campus now trying to figure out how that happened. In any case, a significant number of posters here are NOT anonymous.
Barbarism? Give me a break.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like social psych!
" AH- So many posts with so few implications. It does seem at times that one has to surf through quite a bit of detritus to get to a diamond here. "

I hope you are not referring to the first post on this thread as a "diamond." Clearly, it is a lump of coal, at best.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like history!
"Son, down here in the Magnolia state, when we hear "CCC" we think of the Civilian Conservation Corps - another group effort that did lots of good in Mississippi during the Great Depression era."

I ask your forgiveness, oh wise saint of Southern history! A memorable recent visual, though, was a picture of HB arm in arm and smilin' widely with a bunch of CCC folk (the not so nice ones) at one of their sponsored events.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

AH-

The original post reflects the old saw that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like social psych!
"AH- The original post reflects the old saw that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing."

I can agree with you there!

Date: Aug 12, 2004

Ditto

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: askTRUTHwhoIam
"Human behavior of crowds is much different from their behavior as individuals. Acting collectively and anonymously on this board helps allow people to participate in acts of barbarism they would never engage in as an individual. People acting en masse are not restrained by individual conscience or moral scruples. This crowd instinct, which is in abundance on this board, takes over and shuts down individual judgments regarding right and wrong."

Hmmm . . . a screed that is perilously written and strains at maintaining consistency of subject/object and singular and plural pronouns. Unfortunately askTRUTHwhoIam your writing bears witness to your own barbarism . . . read a little Ortega y Gasset who has some genuinely interesting things to say about barbarians and has the chops to carry it off . . .

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: askTRUTHwhoIam
"Human behavior of crowds is much different from their behavior as individuals. Acting collectively and anonymously on this board helps allow people to participate in acts of barbarism they would never engage in as an individual. People acting en masse are not restrained by individual conscience or moral scruples. This crowd instinct, which is in abundance on this board, takes over and shuts down individual judgments regarding right and wrong."

askTRUTHwho1am,

I believe you might be making an error commonly made by college freshmen: Confusing cause and effect. You seem to suggest that posting on this message board results in some sort of group mind or (as you call it) crowd instinct. I, on the other hand, believe it is equally plausible that there is an initial selection process: The posters on this message board initially gravitated to the board because they are of like mind with regard to the fundamental issues discussed on the board. An elementary course in statistics seems to be in order. The USM psychology department offers an excellent one. Perhaps you should consider obtaining permission to audit it.

Date: Aug 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
" askTRUTHwho1am, I believe you might be making an error commonly made by college freshmen: Confusing cause and effect. You seem to suggest that posting on this message board results in some sort of group mind or (as you call it) crowd instinct. I, on the other hand, believe it is equally plausible that there is an initial selection process: The posters on this message board initially gravitated to the board because they are of like mind with regard to the fundamental issues discussed on the board. An elementary course in statistics seems to be in order. The USM psychology department offers an excellent one. Perhaps you should consider obtaining permission to audit it."

nice analysis first ant . . . it is generous of you to offer instruction to someone so clearly in need.

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: I like social psych!
"Actually, I do understand that post. It's not that group events always lead to bad outcomes. Rather there are principles of group dynamics that can, in many circumstances, lead to bad outcomes. Social psychologists are well aware of such phenomena as group conformity, diffusion of responsibility, the "risky shift" effect, modeling effects on destructive behaviors, group think, and so forth. Although many group efforts have positive outcomes (e.g., charity drives for an uninsured medical patient), get a group of folks together in a highly charged emotional atmosphere, denigrate and dehumanize a common target, provide the opportunity for anonymous attacks on the target, and, presto, you can have a Pogrom, race riot, KKK (or the more contemporary CCC-a favorite of many MS politicians), a Spanish Inquisition, or a Cold War standoff. I don't see eye to eye with all the posts here, and many just seem plain boneheaded. However, I am not at all worried that Truth (hi AH) and the rest of the crowd is about to form the next National Socialist party and march brown-shirted in jack-boots down Hardy St. An interesting visual though! "

Professor Glamser, is that you?

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"Barbarism? Give me a break."

barbarism (bär´be-rîz´em) noun
1. An act, trait, or custom characterized by ignorance or crudity.
2. The use of words, forms, or expressions considered incorrect or unacceptable.

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"In any case, a significant number of posters here are NOT anonymous.

And yet, everyone in this thread is anonymous. Curious.

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: NVL
"And yet, everyone in this thread is anonymous. Curious."

Not quite, NVL. Look again.

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: NVL
"And yet, everyone in this thread is anonymous. Curious."

"Stephen Judd" is not anonymous. Neither are "LVN" or "Truth4USM/AH", both of whom are using their initials.

The rest of us are still racing out at the Trestles...

Well if she wants to see me
You can tell her that I'm easily found
Tell her there's a spot out `neath Abram's Bridge
In the darkness on the edge of town

- Bruce Springsteen,

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Hmmm . . . a screed that is perilously written and strains at maintaining consistency of subject/object and singular and plural pronouns. Unfortunately askTRUTHwhoIam your writing bears witness to your own barbarism . . . read a little Ortega y Gasset who has some genuinely interesting things to say about barbarians and has the chops to carry it off . . . "

Ahhhh.....a critique from a member of the decaying field of English. Enlighten me further please. How does it feel to get a degree in a field only to realize before it was too late that your English major was a complete waste of your hard-working minimum wage money?

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: AntonelliCollege
"Ahhhh.....a critique from a member of the decaying field of English. Enlighten me further please. How does it feel to get a degree in a field only to realize before it was too late that your English major was a complete waste of your hard-working minimum wage money?"

You must have missed the thread containing the names of many successful undergraduate English majors. Many giants of industry majored in English. Some Editors prefer English majors to journalism majors. English is a marvelous undergraduate major for those planning on entering law school. I have known several English majors who entered medical school.

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: AntonelliCollege
"Ahhhh.....a critique from a member of the decaying field of English. Enlighten me further please. How does it feel to get a degree in a field only to realize before it was too late that your English major was a complete waste of your hard-working minimum wage money?"

Troll-o-meter:

-10 points for fact-checking (Stephen Judd is a theater professor)

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: AntonelliCollege
"Ahhhh.....a critique from a member of the decaying field of English. Enlighten me further please. How does it feel to get a degree in a field only to realize before it was too late that your English major was a complete waste of your hard-working minimum wage money?"

AC:

ahhh . . . why do you assume that it takes an English major to be able to write reasonbly well? Your valorization of a certain type of specialist is fairly elitist . . . It is interesting to me that Einstein enjoyed the company of writers . . . of course, he wasn't arrogant enough to believe that his area of knowledge was the only knowledge that was useful or profound . . . nor did he suffer your inferiority complex . . .

let me tell you from experience about all of the engineers I know who found themselves out of a profession after five years because they were too highly paid to retrain for a new project once their old project had ended (no disrespect to engineers -- just a comment on the way people like AC seem to value people).

You view of knowledge and of people is fundamentally instrumental -- maybe your calling should have been as a formeman on a mid 19th century plantation . . . .

Date: Aug 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"ahhh . . . why do you assume that it takes an English major to be able to write reasonbly well?"

Why assume that majors in the "hard sciences" aren't able to write well either? Last time I checked, the late Stephen Jay Gould made far more money writing than he made as Alexander Agassiz Chair of Zoology at Harvard. Mississippi's own Arthur Guyton was no slouch with subject-verb agreement, commas & semicolons either.

(Trolls may now commence bashing Gould for his socialist tendencies & Guyton for his legendary arrogance.)

My point is that good scientists very frequently write quite well. They didn't learn that in organic chemistry lab. They learned it from English professors!