Polymer High School - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 13, 2004

Polymer High School

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: HHH
"The goal of the program -- is to -- prepare students for opportunities within the local polymer workforce"

What local polymer workforce?

Date: Jul 13, 2004

don't you know about the local polymer industry?! it's called detailing-shops. they use a sophisticated polymer called armor-all.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
When classes begin this fall, Moss Point will become the third high school in the state to teach polymer science courses.

I know that Petal was one of the 'other two' schools in this program. Does anyone know if this has had any effect on enrollment?

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"What local polymer workforce?"

Read the following from June 24:

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/8997667.htm

"The polymer industry employs over 18,600 people at more than 350 companies in the state, 10 percent of the manufacturing work force."

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
"The polymer industry employs over 18,600 people at more than 350 companies in the state, 10 percent of the manufacturing work force.""

But doesn't just about everything except raw wood, ,fruit, vegetables, people, and other animals have "coatings" which might come under the category of polymers? The 18,600 people/350 companies/10% figures is uninterpretable without knowing just what industries are lumped under the polymer category.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
" Read the following from June 24: http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/8997667.htm "The polymer industry employs over 18,600 people at more than 350 companies in the state, 10 percent of the manufacturing work force.""

Someone with more knowledge about polymer science than I have ought to respond to this but my guess is that the above 18,600 refers to chemical industry employees in the state. If the USM Polymer Science program were rated as a Chemistry program, I'm sure it would not be ranked in the top 10. Isn't the high ranking based on a narrow definition of the field? I am not trying to denigrate the polymer science program or its many fine faculty but I do believe someone is being loose with the terminology and comparisons.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Stickler
"Someone with more knowledge about polymer science than I have ought to respond to this but my guess is that the above 18,600 refers to chemical industry employees in the state. If the USM Polymer Science program were rated as a Chemistry program, I'm sure it would not be ranked in the top 10. Isn't the high ranking based on a narrow definition of the field? I am not trying to denigrate the polymer science program or its many fine faculty but I do believe someone is being loose with the terminology and comparisons."

My guess is that the figures themselves are probably reasonably accurate. But I suspect they measure something different than what the reader suspects. In that sense, I suspect they are misleading.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

Bringing polymers into high school instruction is not unique to Mississippi. Here is what Boston University is doing thru their Physics Department and their Science and Mathematics Education Department:

Welcome to the Center for Polymer Studies (CPS), a scientific visualization research center in the Physics Department and Science and Mathematics Education Center at Boston University. We are devoted to interdisciplinary research in aspects of polymer, random, and fractal systems and we utilize our expertise in this area to develop experimental and computational materials for high school and undergraduate education.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

Bringing a polymer science program to a high school is not a bad thing--on the contrary, it's a good thing. What's bad is that SFT is so self-serving...why doesn't he offer to help establish reading programs or business programs or other programs at local schools? Here's the answer: because by establishing these outreach programs in polymer science at local high schools, he will boost the chances of getting grant proposals written by the PSC PIs funded. There's nothing that federal agencies love more these days than showing how your program will "give back" to the community in these ways. Again, while that is a *good thing* to do, SFT's motives are driven by $$ or else he would also be championing satellite writing programs, reading programs, etc. etc. You won't see that happen anytime soon, I'm afraid.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
". . . What's bad is that SFT is so self-serving...why doesn't he offer to help establish reading programs or business programs or other programs at local schools? Here's the answer: because by establishing these outreach programs in polymer science at local high schools, he will boost the chances of getting grant proposals written by the PSC PIs funded.

Also, note the following statement from the announcement as it pertains to setting students ". . . . on the path to higher education, preferably at Southern Miss."

"The goal of the program . . . . .is both to prepare students for opportunities within the local polymer workforce and to set them on the path to higher education, preferably at Southern Miss."

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Curious II
""

Gee, I wonder who was responsible for that press release??

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Stickler
"Someone with more knowledge about polymer science than I have ought to respond to this but my guess is that the above 18,600 refers to chemical industry employees in the state. If the USM Polymer Science program were rated as a Chemistry program, I'm sure it would not be ranked in the top 10. Isn't the high ranking based on a narrow definition of the field? I am not trying to denigrate the polymer science program or its many fine faculty but I do believe someone is being loose with the terminology and comparisons."

dont suppose anyone mentioned that one of the largest polymer related companies (plastic injection molding)in the state closed in hattiesburg a year ago, all molding machines sold. work moved to mexico. sunbeam has a beautiful $10million plant vacant in hattiesburg industrial park. now we still want to build a new innovation park?? impossible to keep the "high tech" jobs we have, much less add new jobs.

the actions of the past dont inspire confidence of the future

Date: Jul 13, 2004

"The goal of the program . . . . .is both to prepare students for opportunities within the local polymer workforce and to set them on the path to higher education, preferably at Southern Miss."

What is wrong with that statement? Would you rather he said LSU??? We should be praising him for finally doing what a college president should do, recruit (now if he would stop managing and start fund raising, we might have a president).

Truth, why would you expect a person with a background in polymer to start a high school creative writing program? Those type programs are a great idea, but shouldn't that be an english faculty's job (or plug in appropriate faculty member with appropriate school program).

Stickler, Polymer is lumped together with material sciences which is a large sub-field of chemistry and chemical engineering. Often it includes plastics, ceramics and metallurgy. When the rankings were only polymer, USM was 3rd, but when they expanded the definition it went down to 7th. It would probably be a mistake to lump it together with chemistry as a whole since each sub-field is so specialized (organic, inorganic, analytical, etc.)

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: asdf
""The goal of the program . . . . .is both to prepare students for opportunities within the local polymer workforce and to set them on the path to higher education, preferably at Southern Miss." What is wrong with that statement? Would you rather he said LSU???

Certainly not, asdf. The goal of a high school is not to prepare students to enter a specific college. A "one school fits all" philosophy is definitely not appropriate. The student should be presented with available options and given whatever information the guidance counselors and others have available which will help the student to choose wisely.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
"" Truth, why would you expect a person with a background in polymer to start a high school creative writing program? Those type programs are a great idea, but shouldn't that be an english faculty's job (or plug in appropriate faculty member with appropriate school program."

I expect a university President to support and promote programs in all areas. Sadly, SFT doesn't seem to share this "world class" view of a university President's job description.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

Roly Poly-mer,

I agree, high school counselors, teachers, etc should give students as much information about different colleges, but university recruiters (and I include the pres in this category) should do everything possible to convince you that their school can best fit the student’s needs (if appropriate). If students get excited about polymers in high school, then USM is the best school in the region for them to attend. If a kid gets excited about an engineering technology program in high school, somebody from MS State should be down there trying to convince them to go to State.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
"If a kid gets excited about an engineering technology program in high school, somebody from MS State should be down there trying to convince them to go to State."

Not quite correct, asdf. If I am not mistaken, USM has the Engineering Technology program. Mississippi State has the Engineering program. So I can't see why Mississippi State would be coming down there to convince students interested in Engineering Technology to go MS State.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

I thought of that after I posted it, engineering was just the first undergrad major that I thought of that HS's often offer as a technology program. USM offers a nursing program for those that take allied health in HS and I can't think of a college major that corresponds with shop. Excuse me for my poor analogy, but I hope you see my point.

Date: Jul 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
"I thought of that after I posted it, engineering was just the first undergrad major that I thought of that HS's often offer as a technology program. USM offers a nursing program for those that take allied health in HS and I can't think of a college major that corresponds with shop. Excuse me for my poor analogy, but I hope you see my point."

Yes, asdf, I do see the point you are trying to make. However, I want to point out that relatively few students who play in the high school band go to college to prepare to become professional musicians. Music is offered in high school as a broadening experience for all participants - not necessary as a vocational step toward becoming a band director. Similarly, a high school program in "allied health," such as you mention, is not a requisite to entering a baccalaureate program in nursing. Generally, college bound students should probably consider a college preparatory high school program (although I sure wish I had taken "shop" or some other skills-oriented course as an elective).

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asdf
""
Stickler, Polymer is lumped together with material sciences which is a large sub-field of chemistry and chemical engineering. Often it includes plastics, ceramics and metallurgy. When the rankings were only polymer, USM was 3rd, but when they expanded the definition it went down to 7th. It would probably be a mistake to lump it together with chemistry as a whole since each sub-field is so specialized (organic, inorganic, analytical, etc.)"

By whose reckoning is the polymer science program at USM still ranked in the top 10 in this expanded category? Top 20? When, if ever, did it obtain such distinction? Failing your citation of a current ranking by an agency of good repute, I'll have to conclude, in light of your authoritative tone, that you are attempting to mislead us.

Date: Jul 14, 2004

Invictus raised the idea of a "Best Moniker" award on another thread and made the first nomination for it. If there is going to be one (up for it, Mr. Wonderful?), I would like to nominate Roly Poly-mer.

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"Invictus raised the idea of a "Best Moniker" award on another thread and made the first nomination for it. If there is going to be one (up for it, Mr. Wonderful?), I would like to nominate Roly Poly-mer. "

Mr. Wonderful has his/her hands full with the weekly le citation de la semaine award, Malapropism, and can't take on a new task at this time. But the selection committee did get a chuckle out of Invictus' recognition of the pseudonym Colonoscopy, and your recognition of the pseudonym Roly Poly-mer. Perhaps you might take upon yourself this task. Speaking for myself, Mr. Wonderful would wait with eager anticipation as the Best Moniker Award, by whatever name, was announced each week. So whatdaya say?

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Mr. Wonderful
"Mr. Wonderful has his/her hands full with the weekly le citation de la semaine award, Malapropism, and can't take on a new task at this time. But the selection committee did get a chuckle out of Invictus' recognition of the pseudonym Colonoscopy, and your recognition of the pseudonym Roly Poly-mer. Perhaps you might take upon yourself this task. Speaking for myself, Mr. Wonderful would wait with eager anticipation as the Best Moniker Award, by whatever name, was announced each week. So whatdaya say?"

The pressure to step up and not simply take potshots from the cheap seats????

Let me ponder this...

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"Let me ponder this..."
In view of the very serious issues discussed on this message board, I appreciated the bit of pseudonym humor you and Invictus injected into the discussions. Not a bad idea. No potshots from cheap sheats. Just a little humor for the soul in the midst of a terrible crisis. From my perspective, your postings and those by Invictus have been important, serious, and consistently good ones. All worth reading. Either of you two (whoever you are) appears to be qualified to conduct the task. Do ponder it.

Date: Jul 14, 2004

Is this program really focused on polymer chemistry or plastics production technology? I suspect that the majority of those 18K "polymer industry" employees are folks who work production line in plastics injection/extrusion molding. For that matter, how many of those "chemical industry" employees work on bagging machines at fertilizer plants.

A lot of those 18K jobs are hardly "skilled labor."

That said, I think it is wonderful that USM is doing h.s. outreach & I can't fault the president for promoting the discipline he knows the most about. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to make much effort to learn about other disciplines that might be equally interesting to high school students. Marine sciences would be another area that could be (maybe is) working with high schools to lure unsuspecting "minds full of mush" into their field. We could then tick down a list of every department at the university.

Another area where the university could be a lot more aggressive is recruiting community college students. USM needs to get with the program & ratify a real articulation agreement! I wonder if those students at Moss Point are being told that USM may or may not accept transfer credit if they choose to attend a community college... <SIGH>

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"Is this program really focused on polymer chemistry or plastics production technology? I suspect that the majority of those 18K "polymer industry" employees are folks who work production line in plastics injection/extrusion molding. For that matter, how many of those "chemical industry" employees work on bagging machines at fertilizer plants. A lot of those 18K jobs are hardly "skilled labor." That said, I think it is wonderful that USM is doing h.s. outreach & I can't fault the president for promoting the discipline he knows the most about. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to make much effort to learn about other disciplines that might be equally interesting to high school students. Marine sciences would be another area that could be (maybe is) working with high schools to lure unsuspecting "minds full of mush" into their field. We could then tick down a list of every department at the university. Another area where the university could be a lot more aggressive is recruiting community college students. USM needs to get with the program & ratify a real articulation agreement! I wonder if those students at Moss Point are being told that USM may or may not accept transfer credit if they choose to attend a community college... <SIGH> "

Invictus,

Your thoughts here are cogent as always, but let's get on to the more important issue at hand.

Would you consider (as suggested by Mr. Wonderful) being my partner in selecting the "Superlative Sobriquet" each week?

Mal

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"Another area where the university could be a lot more aggressive is recruiting community college students. USM needs to get with the program & ratify a real articulation agreement!"

When Dr. Sims was VPAA, there was a meaningful - and published - articulation agreement between USM and Mississippi's two-year community colleges. I maintained copies of it in my files, and I routinely provided a copy to the community college transfer students when I was assigned to be their academic advisor. I never received word that the agreement was retracted, so I used it until the bitter end. It invariably worked! It saved many community college transfers from unnecessarily repeating courses at USM that were covered by the articulation agreement. After Dr. Sims left that office, the articulation agreement (along with many other things) seemed to go downhill.

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Malapropism
"
Would you consider (as suggested by Mr. Wonderful) being my partner in selecting the "Superlative Sobriquet" each week?
"

Why not? Of course, we're going to have to duke it out over CBEDColonscopy vs Roly-Polymer right off the bat.

Must work out some way to keep the deliberations secret... Maybe you should contact Truth/AH for an idea of how this may be accomplicated.

Date: Jul 14, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: First Ant at the Picnic
"When Dr. Sims was VPAA, there was a meaningful - and published - articulation agreement between USM and Mississippi's two-year community colleges. I maintained copies of it in my files, and I routinely provided a copy to the community college transfer students when I was assigned to be their academic advisor. I never received word that the agreement was retracted, so I used it until the bitter end. It invariably worked! It saved many community college transfers from unnecessarily repeating courses at USM that were covered by the articulation agreement. After Dr. Sims left that office, the articulation agreement (along with many other things) seemed to go downhill. "

What I'm hearing is that USM is not working with the community colleges on the revamped articulation agreement. Small "adjustments" in the lower division curriculum at USM can have big ramifications when they're translated into the community colleges' Uniform Course Numbering System. "Stonewalling" is the word I've heard to describe USM from CC people.

Another twist on this sordid saga is the move -- reportedly backed by none other than Roy Klumb -- to reduce the number of hours for a bacchelor's from 128 to 120. This would mean that a CC graduate could (at best) transfer 60 hours to the university, even though 64 hours are required for the associate degree.

You can do the "math" on this. The idea is that, by refusing to transfer certain courses that have been accepted in the past & by limiting the number of transfer hours total, USM can "force" CC students to transfer earlier than the beginning of their junior year. This will help the university achieve it's 20K student goal.

As I write this, more and more CC students are opting to transfer to Carey, USA & SELU. (Might note that Carey & USA have recently signed articulation agreements with Gulf Coast CC.)