Educating Foot Soldier - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 4, 2004

Educating Foot Soldier

Date: Jul 4, 2004

N2ME,

(1) Have you ever heard of alumni associations?

(2) If you think everyone who works at USM should shut up about Shelby Thames until his contract runs out, does that mean you think Shelby Thames should do whatever he wants to USM until his contract runs out?

For that matter... should he get his contract renewed for another 4 years, which is what he is said to want?

Robert Campbell

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: N2ME
" You cannot be serious? You think the Alumni Association "orchestrated" a letter movement to the HA to attack the faculty? The president of that association would never allow such a thing. You folks are now looking for anything to show you that the public cannot possibly think the faculty is wrong or bad for what they are doing. You folks are now blinded by your own version of what is right rather than wrong. "

N2ME, Did you forget that it was the Alumni Association that failed to support Fleming and was instrumental in his short tenure. I believe the president of that association is capable of allowing such a thing. Why have we not heard an outcry from the alumni association to oust SFT? The leadership of that organization is a SFT pawn. I can provide no proof of this. I can only point to their lack of concern and slience.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: N2ME
""

And now you're attacking Foot Soldier? You're obviously a troll, now aren't you?

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: N2ME... Foot Soldier said: "If the general public were educated about higher education, Mississippi would be much better off, in numerous ways."

What an elitist thing to say. Who are you to say who is educated and who is not? The general public knows more about this situation than you think. Hattiesburg is small. It is difficult to keep the Thames rumors from spreading. It is also good for the faculty to know how they are being perceived.

"What you're asking is for us to be quiet until Hitler gets finished invading Poland."

""

N2ME, you sure put a lot of SPIN on the truth. To be "educated" about higher education doesn't mean, "you have an education". It means understanding the nature of "shared governance" and the responsibility of faculty to participate in "shared governance" and the "academic freedom" to question authority so there will be an OBJECTIVE search for truth and the best way to run things. Without this there are no checks and balances to prevent errors.

USM faculty didn't make this up. It is the nature of a REAL university. If the public were "educated about higher education" they would realize it is President Thames that is not acting within these principles and therefore being unprofessional.

At a university all opinion are not equal. Opinions must be backed up with evidence, reason, logic and facts.

The problem is the public acts like it is "private interpretation of the Bible". They hear what is going on and they figure it is O.K. for them to have "their opinion" about what they hear. They don't realize it doesn't work that way in the university, just like it doesn't work that way for a hospital.

We are NOT asking the public to be quiet. We ARE asking the public to make INFORMED comments rather just saying: "well it doesn't work that way where I work, so the professors must be wrong if Thames is the boss".

That thinking is why we had WorldCom and Enron. Universities work with stronger principles. Thames is allowing the public the Univ. is just another business. He wants the weaker principles to apply so he can be unprofessional.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

Why are we responding to a person who is on this Board to throw our common goals off course? Okay, N2ME say something hateful about what I just asked so you have the last word on the subject (since I will let you have that satisfaction and not respond).

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Why are we responding to a person who is on this Board to throw our common goals off course? Okay, N2ME say something hateful about what I just asked so you have the last word on the subject (since I will let you have that satisfaction and not respond)."

I agree... It really isn't necessary to explain yourselves to someone whose agenda is so clearly NOT learning more about the situation. It's fine for N2ME to post whatever he/she feels represents his/her opinion, but you all (USM folks) do not have to accomodate this person- though it is nice of you to try.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: asteria
"I agree... It really isn't necessary to explain yourselves to someone whose agenda is so clearly NOT learning more about the situation. It's fine for N2ME to post whatever he/she feels represents his/her opinion, but you all (USM folks) do not have to accomodate this person- though it is nice of you to try. "

I agree. However, I don't know who is reading this board. It is for their benefit that I can't let such errors in fact and logic as n2me makes to go unanswered. Who knows, maybe Roy Klumb is reading and will learn something.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
" That thinking is why we had WorldCom and Enron. Universities work with stronger principles. Thames is allowing the public the Univ. is just another business. He wants the weaker principles to apply so he can be unprofessional. "

Otherside, I often agree with you. This time I don't. This is another myth as dangerous as the ones being perpetuated about faculty and about USM's "unique" economic development efforts. There is nothing inherent about businesses that lead to WorldCom and Enron type problems. A lack of integrity, poor management and refusal to follow "best practices" is what causes problems for an organization, whether that organization is a business or a university.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Salesperson
"Otherside, I often agree with you. This time I don't. This is another myth as dangerous as the ones being perpetuated about faculty and about USM's "unique" economic development efforts. There is nothing inherent about businesses that lead to WorldCom and Enron type problems. A lack of integrity, poor management and refusal to follow "best practices" is what causes problems for an organization, whether that organization is a business or a university."

O.K. Salesperson. I was referring to the "best practices" that keep both business and universities from corruption. I think, generally speaking, the public doesn't know about "best practices" and think, "whatever the boss says goes no matter what".

Thanks for the clarification.

Date: Jul 4, 2004

Gee, I've been attacked! Whopee!

Seriously folks, this is a particularly rude troll. I really think he/she should be ignored.

Happy 4th everybody, and I hope the only fireworks you're seeing about now are up in the sky, not on the board.

Happy 4th to you too, N2ME.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"Why are we responding to a person who is on this Board to throw our common goals off course?

You have not been reading my posts. You have been reading only the replies to my posts from those who are intimidated by my statements. They are intimidated because in the back of their minds they know there is some truth to what I am saying. I will sum up for you and the others who do not have the wherewithal to read my original posts.

All I have done is to show why the faculty should not be writing letters to the local papers. I have never said they should stop opposing Thames. My point, and as my evidence has shown, is that the faculty writing letters to the papers are embarrassing themselves, me, and USM in general. They are coming off as self-centered elitists. There are people out there with real problems, but the faculty’s specific personal problem is now expected to be all-important to the public. The result is that the faculty are coming off as whiners.

The media campaign for the faculty should be going through one professional person rather than coming from some faculty who do not know how or do not want to express their case in a professional non-caustic manner. I would bet money that with every public embarrassment by an individual faculty member, the IHL becomes more determined to leave Thames in place.

I expressed these opinions above and then gave evidence from various public members and the Sun Herald bulletin board to support them. Now you latecomers are reading only the follow-ups and passing judgment on me.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"And now you're attacking Foot Soldier? You're obviously a troll, now aren't you? "

You have a very loose definition of "attack." I did not attack him. I replied to him. Why are you following me around? Doesn't that make you a troll?

Date: Jul 5, 2004

Did everyone else have a nice 4th of July weekend? I did, and I can't wait to experience the rest of it. God Bless the USA.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Otherside
We are NOT asking the public to be quiet. We ARE asking the public to make INFORMED comments

But the public should not be involved in this. They should not have to be making any comments. Who brought the public’s comments into this situation? The Association encouraged faculty to go to the media, and they definitely did go to the media. It was a PR move to try to get rid of Thames, and it obviously backfired. That is the only reason the public is involved. Now Thames is even more firmly in place. The faculty senate has been making one mistake right after another, and it is apparently going to keep making them.

The best idea I heard on this board yet was to get a PR person for the faculty. Although I am the only one touting this, I think the PR person should act as spokesperson for the faculty as well. If you guys are not going to stop going to the media, and I know you are not, you should at least let someone who knows how to professionally criticize go to the media for you. Like I said before, Neil McMillen's column about 4 months ago in HA was perfect. It criticized Thames and I left the article feeling he really cared about USM. I assure you it is no coincidence that McMillen was never attacked for his comments.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: N2ME
"But the public should not be involved in this situation. They should not have to be making any comments. Who brought the public’s comments into this situation?
That seems to be the only sensible question you've asked, N2ME. Let's try to answer it. I'll go first. My nomination for that honor is a June 12, 2003 letter-to-the-editor of the Clarion-Ledger, Signed Roy Klumb, who wrote "My advice to Dr. Thames is, to borrow a phrase: Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead." In that same letter, he referred to ". . . that arcane rule of tenure." Another nifty little comment in the letter: "Worse, Dr. Thames is now being pushed into opening up a dialogue with the faculty. Toward the end of that letter, he said, "To those who cannot embrace ideas focused on student-centered changed that are effective, efficient and productive, I say: It's time to retire. Now, N2ME, what is your nomination? Name and date, please.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: N2ME
"
But the public should not be involved in this. They should not have to be making any comments. Who brought the public’s comments into this situation? The Association encouraged faculty to go to the media, and they definitely did go to the media. ....

The faculty senate has been making one mistake right after another, and it is apparently going to keep making them.....

"

Sorry N2me, I disagree with you on these points. It's the faculty's DUTY to inform their BOSSES(IHL Board and public) of the unprofessional actions of SFT. You may consider this as a "whistleblower" action. Faculty consider it an ethical obligation to maintain the principles of shared governance and academic freedom. These were/are being violated. What would you do if people in power violated the US constitution?

Although the faculty could use some good PR advice , they are still individual citizens and have a right to publish letters to the editor. Neither you nor I can stop, that so why not discuss something else? (I refuse to try to intimidate people into not writing, if that is where you are going.)

I'm glad you mentioned Faculty Senate. It could use an evaluation. Please list some (or all) of the "mistakes one after the other" that you think they have made. Remember they ARE doing what most of their faculty constituents want. If you are not faculty, then I will consider your opinion as just that "your opinion", but it won’t be helpful unless you provide evidence or reasoned logic.

Thanks for your post. I await your reasoned reply.

Date: Jul 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"N2ME, A *very* simple question: did you, or did you not, fake Truth4USM/AH's name and endorsement? If you did, then you have done something I have not seen done before in many months of visiting this board. Please note: this is not a personal attack; it is merely a simple question."

I'm wondering the same thing...did you impersonate Truth4usm/AH last night? As USM Sympathizer said, this is not an attack--but we would all like an answer to this question.