Name Change for William Carey College? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 20, 2006

Name Change for William Carey College?

Date: May 20, 2006

I see that Mississippi College, while still retaining the official designation "college," now refers to itself as "universiy" twice on the home page of its website: www.mc.edu

Date: May 21, 2006

Northern Cornbread wrote:

I see that Mississippi College, while still retaining the official designation "college," now refers to itself as "universiy" twice on the home page of its website: www.mc.edu

MC is in a much better position to call itself a university than WCC. The science programs at WCC are a complete joke. I think you can count the sum total of the faculty in physics, chemistry, biology, and mathematics on one hand. A recent stroll through the WCC library revealed NO science journals and few science books. We will not consider WCC graduates for our graduate programs without extensive remediation. In no way should WCC consider itself a university.

Date: May 22, 2006

This "we're worthy of calling ourselves an university" thing just completely screams idiocy and, I would wager, is more damaging to the school's image/reputation.

I know several colleges which haven't felt the need to change their name. . . you think the William Carey people have ever heard of Dartmouth? Williams? Wellesley? Amherst? Smith? Vassar? Oberlin? Reed?

Date: May 22, 2006

my thoughts wrote:

I know several colleges which haven't felt the need to change their name. . . Dartmouth? Williams? Wellesley? Amherst? Smith? Vassar? Oberlin? Reed?

You got that right. The name "College" is a very classy designation. And there are some other instititions which could properly call themselves a "University" in every sense of the term, but they choose to retain "College" as their official name. Too bad some prospective parents and their children mistakenly think there's something 'special' about a university as opposed to a college. It has to be a marketing strategy.

Date: May 22, 2006

The supposed need to attract international students seems misleading - if a student from another country doesn't know that William Carey is a Baptist religious institution and would attend it thinking that it is a secular institution that would be the real problem, not whether or not it is called a college or university.

Date: May 22, 2006

Angeline wrote:

The supposed need to attract international students seems misleading - if a student from another country doesn't know that William Carey is a Baptist religious institution and would attend it thinking that it is a secular institution that would be the real problem, not whether or not it is called a college or university.

WCC's history and mission are clearly laid out on its website, so there is no way that a reasonable person would be "misled" into thinking they were attending a secular institution. WCC isn't going recruiting in other countries -- students from other countries seek WCC out as an avenue to get to the U.S.

I'm not too sure why you've decided to take a swipe at WCC other than the fact that you take every opportunity to degrade religion and the politics that don't align themselves with your personal brand.

Date: May 22, 2006

Angeline wrote:

The supposed need to attract international students seems misleading - if a student from another country doesn't know that William Carey is a Baptist religious institution and would attend it thinking that it is a secular institution that would be the real problem, not whether or not it is called a college or university.

Ya gotta love the arrogance of the ingorant when they put on a full display, as the above post indicates. There are Baptists all over the world, in large part due to the original William Carey, who was a founder of the Baptist Missionary Society and translator of the Bible into numerous languages of the Indian subcontinent.

Date: May 22, 2006

Er, OV, doesn't Angeline's post suggest that the name William Carey is internationally recognized? I'm not sure what problem you're seeing here. JL

Date: May 22, 2006

Josephus wrote:

Angeline wrote: The supposed need to attract international students seems misleading - if a student from another country doesn't know that William Carey is a Baptist religious institution and would attend it thinking that it is a secular institution that would be the real problem, not whether or not it is called a college or university.

WCC's history and mission are clearly laid out on its website, so there is no way that a reasonable person would be "misled" into thinking they were attending a secular institution. WCC isn't going recruiting in other countries -- students from other countries seek WCC out as an avenue to get to the U.S. I'm not too sure why you've decided to take a swipe at WCC other than the fact that you take every opportunity to degrade religion and the politics that don't align themselves with your personal brand.

"Swipe'?? I even reread Angeline's post twice and I still can't see any negative reflection on W.C.C. Me thinks Josephus is adding things to history AGAIN.

Date: May 22, 2006

Angeline wrote:

The supposed need to attract international students seems misleading - if a student from another country doesn't know that William Carey is a Baptist religious institution and would attend it thinking that it is a secular institution that would be the real problem, not whether or not it is called a college or university.

I have italicized portions of the passage that are the swipe at WCC. There is an implicit supposition that WCC would somehow hoodwink a student into enrolling by hiding its religious affiliation.

Again, my response is "go to the web." WCC isn't hiding anything, and Angeline's statement is, therefore, out of order.

Date: May 22, 2006

Northern Cornbread wrote:

I see that Mississippi College, while still retaining the official designation "college," now refers to itself as "universiy" twice on the home page of its website: www.mc.edu

Mississippi College faces several problems with regard to a name change. Would they be Mississippi University? Easily confused with University of Mississippi, don't you think?

Hederman University? That might have worked, but it's right out of a Barry Hannah book. He saw where this was going a long time ago.

Mississippi Baptist University? That would be playing right into the hands of the fundamentalists that already dominate the denomination.

Date: May 22, 2006

LeftASAP wrote:

"Swipe'?? I even reread Angeline's post twice and I still can't see any negative reflection on W.C.C. Me thinks Josephus is adding things to history AGAIN.

Thanks LeftASAP. No, I did not intend to criticize the focus of William Carey College - quit being so sensitive and eager to be slighted Josephus. Private religious institutions have been in this country before public education existed and they fill important niches today. I just found it odd that WCC seems worried about international recruitment when any student (here or abroad) should already be familiar with WCC's mission, and if not . . . then that is where the problem would exist and changing from a "college" to a "university" wouldn't matter a bit. Is that not so?

Date: May 22, 2006

Angeline wrote:

No, I did not intend to criticize the focus of William Carey College - quit being so sensitive and eager to be slighted Josephus. . . . changing from a "college" to a "university" wouldn't matter a bit. Is that not so?

FWIW, I agree that Josephus had to reach to take offense, but I disagree that the change from "college" to "university" "wouldn't matter a bit." Among the cognoscenti it may be fairly common knowledge that several excellent schools still retain the "college" designation, but among the public at large (and I don't just mean the great unwashed -- I mean a good, hefty 85%+ majority) the assumption is that a university is much better than a college.

That matters when you are trying to "sell" to folks that make up that 85%+.

Date: May 22, 2006

Appelation Trail wrote:

Cute name!

Date: May 22, 2006

Appelation Trail wrote:

Mississippi College faces several problems with regard to a name change.

MC would have no problem whatsoever in finding a new name if it decided to do so. As an active member of the MC alumni association, however, I can tell you that a name change has not been a topic of discussion at any of the meetings I have attended.

Would they be Mississippi University? Easily confused with University of Mississippi, don't you think? Hederman University?

None of the above. There would be quite a few more suitable names when and if MC ever decides to make the transition in name from college to university.

That might have worked, but it's right out of a Barry Hannah book. He saw where this was going a long time ago.

Barry Hannah is a product of Misissippi College (B.A., English, 1964) - see his novel Geronimo Rex for which he won the William Faulkener Prize and then received a National Book Award nomination for that effort). Former USM Professor Noel Polk and numerous other figures in the literary world are also MC graduates. Noel received his B.A. and his M.A. from MC. One of my MC classmates made a career out of using his MC-acquired writing skills in the capacity as ghostwriter for many national figures you would readily recognize as common household names.

Date: May 22, 2006

Since this thread has shifted to a discussion of Mississippi College, I feel I can ask this question: "What happened to all the money Bernie Ebbers was supposed to give to the school. Did the school get the donations before Ebber's empire imploded, or was MC another victim of the WorldCom debacle? Just wondering. If anyone knows, I'd be grateful for the answer.

Date: May 23, 2006

ram wrote:

but among the public at large (and I don't just mean the great unwashed -- I mean a good, hefty 85%+ majority) the assumption is that a university is much better than a college.
That matters when you are trying to "sell" to folks that make up that 85%+.

I would argue that your stat is variable depending on geography.

Many of my friends in the Northeast (unwashed included ;)) still consider a "college" fairly prestigious. In fact in MA, NJ, NY, PA, etc. area, "college" screams a moneyed liberal arts education, and in fact "better" than "university" (with a public connotation).

Undergraduates who apply/attend/graduate from Harvard, Yale, Duke, Princeton, et. al., are actually graduating from Harvard COLLEGE, Yale COLLEGE, Trinity COLLEGE, etc. etc.

I think that point is not lost on some people.

Of an additional note: WCC does not offer any doctoral degrees. . .I was under the impression that it is in poor taste / tacky to call yourself a "university" without offering a single doctoral degree....

Date: May 23, 2006

college vs. university wrote:

ram wrote: but among the public at large (and I don't just mean the great unwashed -- I mean a good, hefty 85%+ majority) the assumption is that a university is much better than a college. That matters when you are trying to "sell" to folks that make up that 85%+. I would argue that your stat is variable depending on geography. Many of my friends in the Northeast (unwashed included ;)) still consider a "college" fairly prestigious. In fact in MA, NJ, NY, PA, etc. area, "college" screams a moneyed liberal arts education, and in fact "better" than "university" (with a public connotation). Undergraduates who apply/attend/graduate from Harvard, Yale, Duke, Princeton, et. al., are actually graduating from Harvard COLLEGE, Yale COLLEGE, Trinity COLLEGE, etc. etc. I think that point is not lost on some people. Of an additional note: WCC does not offer any doctoral degrees. . .I was under the impression that it is in poor taste / tacky to call yourself a "university" without offering a single doctoral degree....

Better double check on that. the websites for Duke and Princeton. They identify themselves as universities. Yale and Harvard also call themselves universities (although, atleast int he case of Yale, the undergrad wing of the university is called Yale College. I presume Harvard College is set up similarly within Harvard University).

You also have to be careful when referring to Yale College since there is a school in the United Kingdom that goes by that name, and from I can tell, it has no ties to the Yale in Connecticut.

Date: May 23, 2006

A "university" is an organized collection of "colleges" - e.g., college of architecture, college of nursing, college of medicine, college of law, college of liberal arts, college of business, etc. Those who want USM reduced to only one unit (i.e., COST) are unwittingly suggesting that USM be a college (e.g., Mississipi Southern College.) I always liked that name. Had a nice ring to it.

Date: May 24, 2006

Curt Yeomans wrote:

college vs. university wrote:
ram wrote: but among the public at large (and I don't just mean the great unwashed -- I mean a good, hefty 85%+ majority) the assumption is that a university is much better than a college. That matters when you are trying to "sell" to folks that make up that 85%+. I would argue that your stat is variable depending on geography. Many of my friends in the Northeast (unwashed included ;)) still consider a "college" fairly prestigious. In fact in MA, NJ, NY, PA, etc. area, "college" screams a moneyed liberal arts education, and in fact "better" than "university" (with a public connotation). Undergraduates who apply/attend/graduate from Harvard, Yale, Duke, Princeton, et. al., are actually graduating from Harvard COLLEGE, Yale COLLEGE, Trinity COLLEGE, etc. etc. I think that point is not lost on some people. Of an additional note: WCC does not offer any doctoral degrees. . .I was under the impression that it is in poor taste / tacky to call yourself a "university" without offering a single doctoral degree....

Better double check on that. the websites for Duke and Princeton. They identify themselves as universities. Yale and Harvard also call themselves universities (although, atleast int he case of Yale, the undergrad wing of the university is called Yale College. I presume Harvard College is set up similarly within Harvard University).
You also have to be careful when referring to Yale College since there is a school in the United Kingdom that goes by that name, and from I can tell, it has no ties to the Yale in Connecticut.

I graduated from Duke (undergrad) within the last decade and I hold a B.A. from Trinity College.

Similarly friends from the other schools I mentioned graduated/attended the liberal arts undergraduate schools, aka colleges, at these universities. Look at the admissions applications or the commencement schedules for clarification. Yes, these schools identify themselves as universities, but they are made up of units identified as colleges.

Date: Jun 3, 2006

COST faculty wrote:

We will not consider WCC graduates for our graduate programs without extensive remediation.

I wouldn't be so smug if I were you. William Carey graduates fare pretty well:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060603/NEWS/606030346/1001

Date: Jun 3, 2006

http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=P000066