Advocate wrote:

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This isn't meant as an "us" vs. "them" topic, but if Oak Grove becomes a separate city, what are the implications for Hattiesburg, its business growth, and its tax base?

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Interesting question . . . but in the long run, there are probably few implications, complications, or restrictions that this would entail. Another way of putting this would be, "What were the implications for Hattiesburg, it's business growth, and it's tax base when Petal incorporated?"

Answer: None.

Hattiesburg has already gobbled up that all-important stretch of Hwy. 98 that includes the Turtle Creek Mall and the Wal-Mart Supercenter (that's where the majority of the tax money is comming from) and, although I'm sure the area will continue to grow, I don't see a new mall or Wal-Mart being built any time soon to replace the one's already there. It took 23 years for Turtle Creek to replace Cloverleaf Mall, and then only because the city residents had moved outside of the city limits into that area.

If Oak Grove incorporates, we will eventually see another wave of flight out of the "city" and into the "suburbs", as has been happening in Petal for some time now. However, that will only entail another "wealthy residents" area springing up somewhere in the vicinity, which will eventually result in more business opening in those areas.

The real question is: Which city will be the quickest to try and annex these new areas?

Gnome Watcher

Advocate wrote:

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This isn't meant as an "us" vs. "them" topic, but if Oak Grove becomes a separate city, what are the implications for Hattiesburg, its business growth, and its tax base?

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As is so often the case, the terms define the discussion.  Do illegal immigrants take jobs? Or do wealthy employers hire cheap labor?

Did Hattiesburg grab all of 98? Or did the business developers along 98 want the infrastructure (and the liquor license) that annexation would provide?

The last time Oak Grove attempted incorporation, it was rumored that had it been successful, Oak Grove would have been the least densely populated municipality in the US.  If that was true ten years ago, would it still be true today?

Another question would be how the incorporation of OG would be viewed by the rest of Lamar County. Some of the old timers are still shade tree libertarians who want to avoid any perceived govenment entanglement at all cost. Others in the north and south parts of the county see the interlopers along the 98 corridor as supercilious, urban, johnnies-come-lately who want to tell the established rural and small town folk how they did it better up north, . . . er, in town.

Ram,

Excellent observations and questions, with this one being the most pertinant:

Did Hattiesburg grab all of 98? Or did the business developers along 98 want the infrastructure (and the liquor license) that annexation would provide?

In response, I would opine that it was a little bit of both. The large chain restaurants (Garfields, etc.) wanted the ability to sell alcohol, which makes up a large portion of their profits. The infrastructure was probably a secondary consideration, but still noteworthy. (Could volunteer fire departments handle a fire at Turtle Creek? Could the Lamar County Sheriffs Department handle the increase in crime in the area due to the mall and Wal-Mart?)

On the city side of the equation, the increase in tax revenue was needed to replace the dwindling revenue being lost due to all of the business moving out west. Downtown Hattiesburg was pretty much dead and, with the introduction of the new mall, everyone knew that the Cloverleaf area was about to go belly up, which it quickly did. There was (and still is) little or no new growth to the north or south, and the east is blocked by Petal. What else is a city dying from urban flight to do?

The last time Oak Grove attempted incorporation, it was rumored that had it been successful, Oak Grove would have been the least densely populated municipality in the US.  If that was true ten years ago, would it still be true today?

I doubt that it would still qualify for the US spot, but it would probably be a leading contender for the least densely populated in the state. However, I don't think that population is the most important factor here; it's the tax revenue base. Pretty much all of the good business areas have been engulfed by Hattiesburg, leaving slim pickings for an Oak Grove municipality to incorporate. In order to provide the required city services this would necessarily result in higher property taxes for the local landowners, an add-on sales tax for businesses in the incorporated area, or both. As Last One Out wrote:

I've lived in Hattiesburg for over 30 years, but I have a good deal of admiration for the folks in Oak Grove. They don't have to pay taxes to support one of the worst school districts in the country. They get to a select good superintendent who does an excellent job for around 65% of the pay of his counterpart in Hattiesburg. They are policed by a fairly competent sheriff's dept. which retains most of its personel. They are governed by a board of supervisors that provides basic services without all the bells and whistles. Their rate of crime, illegitimacy, drug use, etc. is much less than the city of Hattiesburg.---------Still, without the commercial tax base they are unlikely to incorporate.

And therein lies the defining factor - money. Perhaps a short history of the area is in order here.

The Oak Grove/Lake Serene area began growing in the mid to late 1960's when civil rights and school desegregation were enacted. The city residents who could afford to (almost exclusively white) moved to the area to prevent their kids from having to go to school with black children. However, they almost immediately noticed that there were some other benefits to the area:

1) It was rural, with a much lower crime and noise rate, but was still within easy driving distance of the work and shopping in the city.
2) Property values were much lower, allowing larger and nicer houses to be built for less money than those in town.
3) Property tax rates were much lower due to the lower property values as well as the lack of city water, fire, and police departments.
4) The county water, fire, and sheriff's departments were more than equal to the task of providing basic services with little or no inconvenience to the county residents.

With these discoveries, more and more people began moving into the area. This quickly became a social issue, with "anybody who is anybody" moving west. As with Hillendale in the 1960's-70's and 40th Avenue in the 1980's, it became the "place to be." As the area grew, new neighborhoods were added (Lake Serene North, South, West, etc.), culminating with the addition of Canebrake in the 1990's. Oak Grove School was a Lamar County school, but was pretty much run by the residents of the area and was almost exclusively white due to the residential make-up of the area. However, by this time, the racial issue was nearly dead (Hattiesburg Prep/Beeson Academy had failed years earlier.), but there was still the issue of the benefits outlined in no.'s 1-4 above. These are what fueled the area's continued growth in the 1990's and beyond. And that leads to your final question:

Another question would be how the incorporation of OG would be viewed by the rest of Lamar County. Some of the old timers are still shade tree libertarians who want to avoid any perceived govenment entanglement at all cost. Others in the north and south parts of the county see the interlopers along the 98 corridor as supercilious, urban, johnnies-come-lately who want to tell the established rural and small town folk how they did it better up north, . . . er, in town.

Possibly, but again I think that the mitigating factor will be money. The commercial tax base is simply not there to support a city and, if they do incorporate, they are looking at a substantial increase in local property and sales taxes in order to afford it. Incorporation would remove all of the four reasons people are moving to the area now, causing them to move further west to regain what they would lose and thus sinking an incorporated Oak Grove before it could really get going.

Gnome Watcher

Well said, Eagle. Wisdom and responsibility don't seem to be common commodities in this area--so it will continue to fester.

Oak Grove has a significant minority population including a growing Mexican community. The system has tried to be pro-active and provide programs for ESL students. Their is also an increase of Section 8 housing in Oak Grove. Everyone in Lamar County is not wealthy. I live in a fairly integrated neighborhood in Oak Grove. Our African-American neighbors moved to Lamar County for the same reasons being discussed already on the board. Are they part of "white flight"? Not at all. They are educated families who want the best for their children and have the ability to move into a level 5 school system. The original migration might have been racially motivated but now it's about better schools-period.

Me wrote:

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You are fooling yourself or do not know too many people who actually live in Oak Grove if you do not think that race is still THE major issue in folks moving west.

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Me,

I am not fooling myself and, over a period of many years, I have made many friends and acquaintenances who live in the Oak Grove area. It was through talking with them throughout these years that I was able to post the four reasons for Oak Groves growth above, not through some guesswork of my own.

Is race an issue within the Oak Grove community? Almost certainly. But, like Hattiesburg and Petal, it is not THE major issue of the area. Not matter what a persons skin color is, MONEY is the issue that effects us all and MONEY is the main reason Oak Grove continues to grow.

Gnome Watcher