New Public Relations Asst. Director - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 13, 2006

New Public Relations Asst. Director

Date: Apr 13, 2006

Apparently JB has found a nice way out of the CoB mess. The wording of Doty's email indicated that he was at least a little surprised by the announcement.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

You know, only at USM have I seen people putting their degrees after their names in such a way. At other schools, people don't need to do that (nor do PhD's call themselves "doctor." It's "professor"--the only "doctors" are the ones who have a medical degree).

Just an observation,

Truth

Date: Apr 14, 2006

CoB Removed wrote:

Apparently JB has found a nice way out of the CoB mess. The wording of Doty's email indicated that he was at least a little surprised by the announcement.

The only surprise to any of us is that Jana didn't take the top slot last year. She'll be an asset to Margie and an asset to the university in her new position.

Congratulations Jana!

Date: Apr 14, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

You know, only at USM have I seen people putting their degrees after their names in such a way. At other schools, people don't need to do that (nor do PhD's call themselves "doctor." It's "professor"--the only "doctors" are the ones who have a medical degree).

Just an observation,

Truth

I think your experience may be a bit limited. There are many, many institutions at which faculty members with Ph.D.s are called "doctor" in addition to "professor." The doctor of philosophy degree is much older than the MD, and I have never understood the social stigma attached to calling a Ph.D. "doctor."

Date: Apr 14, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote,

You know, only at USM have I seen people putting their degrees after their names in such a way. At other schools, people don't need to do that (nor do PhD's call themselves "doctor." It's "professor"--the only "doctors" are the ones who have a medical degree).

I rarely use the term Dr. or Ph.D. except in cases where it is asked for. In my case, I am happy when I am not addressed with titles containing obscene words.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Cossack wrote:

truth4usm/AH wrote, You know, only at USM have I seen people putting their degrees after their names in such a way. At other schools, people don't need to do that (nor do PhD's call themselves "doctor." It's "professor"--the only "doctors" are the ones who have a medical degree). I rarely use the term Dr. or Ph.D. except in cases where it is asked for. In my case, I am happy when I am not addressed with titles containing obscene words.

I agree with Cossack.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

CoB Removed wrote:

Apparently JB has found a nice way out of the CoB mess. The wording of Doty's email indicated that he was at least a little surprised by the announcement.

Here's the text of the Doty email:

"This is a great promotion for Jana and a great addition to the Marketing and PR office. This is good for Jana and for the University even though it is a loss for the B school. Clearly we will miss Jana and her many contributions to the college. She has greatly improved our publications and PR efforts. She has had a major positive effect on the profile and visibility of the B school. She will be greatly missed in our college. I would like to publicly thank her for her contributions to the college. "

Seven simple declarative sentences -- all nice and choppy -- along with references to the "B school," a term nobody in the CoB except Doty uses. If Doty knew about the promotion, his lack of a quality, well-written statement surely doesn't show it.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

CoB Removed wrote:

CoB Removed wrote: Apparently JB has found a nice way out of the CoB mess. The wording of Doty's email indicated that he was at least a little surprised by the announcement.

Here's the text of the Doty email: "This is a great promotion for Jana and a great addition to the Marketing and PR office. This is good for Jana and for the University even though it is a loss for the B school. Clearly we will miss Jana and her many contributions to the college. She has greatly improved our publications and PR efforts. She has had a major positive effect on the profile and visibility of the B school. She will be greatly missed in our college. I would like to publicly thank her for her contributions to the college.

" Seven simple declarative sentences -- all nice and choppy -- along with references to the "B school," a term nobody in the CoB except Doty uses. If Doty knew about the promotion, his lack of a quality, well-written statement surely doesn't show it.

Wow, you Doty haters sure go out of your way to nit pick a simple letter. So you can't tell from the letter how long he knew she was leaving. Whoop De Do!!! So some conclude from this lack of evidence that he was surprised. Wow! Your logic astounds me.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Astounded wrote:

Wow, you Doty haters sure go out of your way to nit pick a simple letter. So you can't tell from the letter how long he knew she was leaving. Whoop De Do!!! So some conclude from this lack of evidence that he was surprised. Wow! Your logic astounds me.

Lack of evidence? Ha! How about a lack of substance in his congratulatory letter?

Sentences 1-4:

"This is a great promotion for Jana and a great addition to the Marketing and PR office. This is good for Jana and for the University even though it is a loss for the B school. Clearly we will miss Jana and her many contributions to the college. She has greatly improved our publications and PR efforts."

List some ways, Harold! Don't just say she did a good job. If you consider herto be as valuable as you say, there should be three or four major instances that come to mind readily. The first four sentences of his email are bland and unconvincing.

Sentence 5:

"She has had a major positive effect on the profile and visibility of the B school."

Harold, you said this using other words in sentence four. Are you grasping for something to say, Harold?

Sentence 6:

"She will be greatly missed in our college."

Harold, you are simply restating Sentence 3!

Sentence 7:

"I would like to publicly thank her for her contributions to the college."

Here is the only truism in the latter half of this email.

Apparently, Doty can sum up the contributions of this valued member of the CoB family in five nonrepetitive sentences. He reached into his desk drawer, pulled out the prepared statement he had readied in anticipation of JB's departure, threw it in the trash can, and then crafted this P.O.S.?

There are three possibilities here. First, there is a possibility that Doty didn't know JB was leaving. Second, there is a possibility that Doty knew she was leaving and that this email was all he could muster. Third, there is a possibility that Doty knew she was leaving and didn't care enough to write a proper letter.

In any of the three events, this is another move that is indicative of his poor leadership.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Thanks for proving my point.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Astounded,

I'm not surprised that my logic astounds you. Hope you're enjoying your day off from OGLE.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Cossack wrote:

I rarely use the term Dr. or Ph.D. except in cases where it is asked for.

I agree. The title "Dr." and the designation "Ph.D." are rarely needed. "Mr." is always correct - Even for someone holding an "M.D." But, as a poster said on the old message board, don't call an M.D. by the title "Mr." while you're on the operating table awaiting surgery.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

Mr. is always correct? I'd have hated to call my wife's oncologist (a woman) Mr.

what a sexist.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

stinky cheese man wrote:

Mr. is always correct? ...........what a sexist.

Mr. is correct for Cossack and it is correct for me. I don't know about your wife's oncologist.

Date: Apr 14, 2006

i'm not sure whether you got my comment. don't cut-and-paste my comment. i'll label you a "dimwit."

Date: Apr 14, 2006

The reticence shown in calling a Ph.D. holder "Dr. X" is indicative of the lack of respect for the title, but mostly lack of respect for the profession. Plenty of "cool" professors (a la Donald Sutherland in "Animal House") have helped generations of students ditch the idea that the professoriate is to be revered. Those who were college freshmen in, say, 1970, are now in their mid-50s and are "running the world."

Date: Apr 14, 2006

CoB Removed wrote:

The reticence shown in calling a Ph.D. holder "Dr. X" is indicative of the lack of respect for the title, but mostly lack of respect for the profession. Plenty of "cool" professors (a la Donald Sutherland in "Animal House") have helped generations of students ditch the idea that the professoriate is to be revered.

"Revered" is not a word I'd use to describe my profession (academics):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=HPID,HPID:2005-42,HPID:en&defl=en&q=define:revered&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Date: Apr 15, 2006

Thorndike Junior wrote:

"Revered" is not a word I'd use to describe my profession (academics):
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=HPID,HPID:2005-42,HPID:en&defl=en&q=define:revered&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Here's another definition:

re·vere (r-vîr) tr.v. re·vered, re·ver·ing, re·veres

To regard with awe, deference, and devotion.

You are correct that it is no longer applicable to academics because we have allowed everybody and his brother a BS or BA degree and have flung wide the gates for masters-level and doctoral degrees.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

CoB Removed wrote:

You are correct that it is no longer applicable to academics because we have allowed everybody and his brother a BS or BA degree and have flung wide the gates for masters-level and doctoral degrees.

Having a Ph.D. does not ensure that one has common sense. Many Ph.D.'s are full of themselves. When I received my Ph.D., I immediately changed the name on my bank checks from Mr. to Dr. I was full of myself back then. Then I grew up.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

The reticence shown in calling a Ph.D. holder "Dr. X" is indicative of the lack of respect for the title, but mostly lack of respect for the profession.

This shows your own ignorance. Where I work, no one calls a PhD holder a "Dr." and much respect is shown for these professors (who are called, suprisingly, "professors"). It is just something that I have noticed as a difference between a Tier One school and Tier Four school. Don't know if it's like this at all Tier One schools or not...anyone else?

Truth

Date: Apr 15, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

Where I work, no one calls a PhD holder a "Dr." and much respect is shown for these professors (who are called, suprisingly, "professors"). It is just something that I have noticed as a difference between a Tier One school and Tier Four school. Don't know if it's like this at all Tier One schools or not...anyone else?

That has also been my observation. I am convinced that the perpetual use of the title "Dr." is a fourth tier phenomenon.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

The reticence shown in calling a Ph.D. holder "Dr. X" is indicative of the lack of respect for the title, but mostly lack of respect for the profession.

This shows your own ignorance. Where I work, no one calls a PhD holder a "Dr." and much respect is shown for these professors (who are called, suprisingly, "professors"). It is just something that I have noticed as a difference between a Tier One school and Tier Four school. Don't know if it's like this at all Tier One schools or not...anyone else?

Truth

I like the fact that a doctoral student at a Tier I university is willing to lecture someone who has taught at Tier I, II, III, and IV schools (as a graduate student and as a tenure-track faculty member) about how things are at "better" schools. There are plenty of Tier I schools at which professors are called "Dr." Vanderbilt just may not be one of them. Since I am aware of only two schools that you have attended (USM and Vandy), I am still unimpressed with your knowledge base. Notice how you start your statement -- "Where I work..." -- this simply indicates that you are allowing your personal anecdotal evidence to dominate how you view the issue. Not surprising, though. This is a major problem right now with this board. Too many individuals who allow their emotions and personal experience to rule their thought processes.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

...a doctoral student at a Tier I university

Wrong.

And having someone from the COB telling me about "too many individuals who allow their emotions and personal experience to rule their thought processes"...well, that is simply priceless.

Your defensiveness is showing, COBer.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

...a doctoral student at a Tier I university

Wrong.

And having someone from the COB telling me about "too many individuals who allow their emotions and personal experience to rule their thought processes"...well, that is simply priceless.

Your defensiveness is showing, COBer.

Then exactly what is your basis for saying that Ph.D.s are called "professor" at good schools and "Dr." at bad schools? Just how many schools do you have direct experience with? Or are you speaking from scientific experience, having conducted a national survey? I think it's your defensiveness that is showing. You don't like it when someone calls you on your unscientific, centrist view of the world.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

COBer, did you even read my posts? I offered information based on my direct experience. I asked for other's experiences. You offered yours (with a healthy dose of defensiveness).

I also refuted your claim that a preference for using "Professor" instead of "Doctor" indicates a lack of respect. Guess that's what set you off??

Date: Apr 15, 2006

truth4usm/AH wrote:

COBer, did you even read my posts? I offered information based on my direct experience. I asked for other's experiences. You offered yours (with a healthy dose of defensiveness).

I also refuted your claim that a preference for using "Professor" instead of "Doctor" indicates a lack of respect. Guess that's what set you off??

No, what set me off was your assertion that at Tier I schools professors are called "professor" while at Tier IV schools, they demand to be called "doctor." Your assertion is based on a small sample size.

I have offered my opinion that society has a lack of respect for the Ph.D. -- which is an older degree than the M.D. -- along with its disrespect for academics in general. Those who seek knowledge are "freeloaders" or "bums," so why show them respect at all, much less by calling them by their earned doctoral title.

I do not insist that anyone call me "doctor," and I agree with Cossack that I am pleased when my students call me anything non-profane. However, attainment of the doctor of philosophy degree is worthy of respect, whether or not that includes being called by a certain title.

However, I think this all has more to do with the fact that I identified myself as related to the CoB than my actual opinion on anything.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

Well, Lent's actually over although I was planning to wait until Monday to post. However, Truth is correct that at many top-tier schools, "Professor" is used instead of "Dr." That was my experience at Vanderbilt, which is where she is. My graduate advisor at Western Kentucky once told me that the lower-level the school, the more "doctor-crazy" (his term) it tended to be. "Professor" would also encompass those whose teminal degrees are not a PhD.

The only respect issue I see is the one we've noted before, that at USM sometimes women faculty are Mrs. and male faculty are Dr., at least in the language of the Dome.

Date: Apr 15, 2006

LVN! So good to see you back! Hooray for the end of Lent!

Truth

Date: Apr 15, 2006

One of my professors at USC said, "Don't call me 'Doctor,' but rather 'Professor.' 'Doctor' just means you finished the Ph.D., but 'Professor' means you got a job." Of course, this is the same professor who told me that "Mister" for men was really more elegant, since that's the way they did it in the Ivy League.

Then there's the first-name option. I believe I've mentioned before that Loughborough University in the UK (where I taught as a visiting professor in the academic year 2002-03) has a first-name rule for everyone at the university. A first-year undergraduate is expected to be on first-name basis with everyone, even the Chancellor of the University, currently someone with multiple knighthoods. (One might have to say, "Sir John," I imagine.) My own dissertation director expected us to call him Larry, but then again, he had other ways to intimidate his students. And he would not allow me to tutoyer him when we conversed in French. I imagine that all informalities have their limits.

JL