20 Year Vet wrote:

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Having been at USM for over 20 years, I can tell you one thing with certainty. USM should never have expanded its graduate and especially doctoral offerings to their current level. USM will not ever receive the appropriate resources to offer comprehensive and quality graduate programs in all of the areas it currently offers. Our historical strength IS undergraduate education. USM used to graduate strong undergraduate students who could go to grad programs elsewhere and be competitive. Now our undergrad strength has suffered in an effort to support all of these low-quality grad programs. It's time we took an honest look at where we are and what we should be, rather than looking at where we should be and what we might be.

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20 Year Vet wrote:

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40 year vet wrote: I agree, 20 year vet.  Of course the reasons for the push for graduate education is to obtain research money and students don't really learn a whole lot at the undergraduate level any more.  The state needs an educated work force. 

While I agree with what you have posted, I would interject that what Mississippi really needs is more well-educationally-rounded citizens. I would like to see more USM graduates exposed to more varied subjects and to have that exposure presented by faculty who are interested in undergraduate education. Too many times I have heard individuals claim that teaching graduate courses is what keeps them interested in their profession. While that may be a reality, it is also a reality that we probably would not have the anti-faculty sentiment in Hattiesburg and/or in the USM alumni base if those groups had experienced a more classical type of education. USM should not treat undergraduate education as a secondary priority for a number of reasons.

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20 Year Vet wrote:

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I understand your frustration. There is a simple solution to these issues: teach quasi-real classes and give quasi-real grades. If enough of us did this, many of your problem students would leave USM in search of an easier route to a bachelor's degree, they would abandon the pursuit altogether, or they would start working academically. By pandering to every breathing soul who walks through our doors, we are not doing ourselves any favors. Of course, there's the threat from the administration regarding retaining students.

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stinky cheese man wrote:

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Vet--the following part of your statement bugs me:

"As it stands now, no self-respecting quality student with any other options will attend USM."

None! I guess last year's Phi Kappa Phi bowl winner who was accepted into UW-Madison's comparative literature graduate program either (1) is not quality, (2) is not self-respecting, or (3) had no options. I doubt any are true. I know of another who had options who was accepted into a fine graduate program into UT-Austin. I guess she was not be self-respecting. I know another this year who has offers from such places at UGA, UC-Santa Barbara, U of Kentucky, and others.

Such broad-brush claims insult those bright students we do have--and we do have some very bright ones. Their admission into graduate programs at places like Madison or Austin are proof positive. Their admission is also evidence that there are faculty writing letters of recommendation who are still respected in their disciplines outside of USM.

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While faculty are whining again, at least there is some semblence of resignation among posters here on this board that our IHL board is wisely changing the relative position of USM, and Dr. Thames is the "change agent."   Change is good and USM cannot compare itself to Ole Miss and MSU.   Dr. Thames knows what is best and Dr. Grimes does yoeman work in implemenation.  Dr. Grimes, it is true, does not often handle himself well in times of "change" but we all know this is what Dr. Thames was hired to do.

I believe in a few years, after Dr. Meredith selects the new USM president, that USM will be well on the road to their proper status in our state, fully held accountable to the taxpayer to do full work, and to better serve our students in the new mission of USM as undergraduate center of teaching excellence.  Economic development, science, and undergraduate teaching IS, like it or not, the new USM of the future.  Get used to her now.  It should be obvious now, and I do not mind telling people the way it is on the IHL.  It is no secret now.  Even MSU will have some minor changes in their mission statement.

Her former leadership in the arts, etc, will be transferred to universities better staffed and equipped with the proper resources to earn the taxpayer a better return.

thamesbeliever wrote:

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While faculty are whining again, at least there is some semblence of resignation among posters here on this board

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thamesbeliever wrote:

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Cossack makes a mistake.  As reasoned as you appear to be, what you say has no basis in fact then, now, or ever.  First, I am IN the Hattiesburg community.  I want a bigger school with more students spending more money so that local businesses and medical services can thrive and provide jobs.  Dr. Thames and the IHL know this.  This is  a gain.  That is what you don't understand about local leaders who back this change. You present not one shred of evidence that Ole Miss wants to lessen competition.  Resources need to go where the taxpayers get highest return and the university can make the most profits. USM can have more students with a bigger economic development impact in a decade or so when the change in mission is more complete.  It will take a while to transfer leadership in areas like Psychology (not education and instruction, that will remain at USM as it should), but much less time to transfer programs from the dying arts, nursing, and business.  I would suspect USM will get to keep some of that in the end, mainly to graduate students for graduate school. Contrary to Cossack, this will INCREASE competition a lot. There is no evidence that there is any slacking at the big two.  They have established professional schools, degrees, and agriculture that USM cannot have and never will have. It is laughable when USM faculty try to disparage the research producivity at comprehensive schools like Ole Miss.  Is Cossack jealous?  Your own  community, your neighbors all want this change for the good of our community.  I do support USM and I want to see it grow the right way, just as I want the other 7 schools to grow and prosper in this global environment.  But this takes specialization.  Dr. Thames and our IHL have the guts to do it.      

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2 Out Of 3 Ain't Bad? wrote:

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With all due respect to some of the posters here, you simply aren't capable of comprehending the moves at work.

And with all due respect to you, sir or madam, I daresay you are mightily misinformed....

To your first assertion (below) I'd note that, as the President of my university (USM) has frequently noted, "University researchers PRODUCE the knowledge that is disseminated in college and community college classrooms." What he means is that our "research" is the production of cutting edge technologies, applications, and yes, even theories--such as the now-popular management theories about how collaborative leadership produces greater output with lower costs than traditional, hierarchical management structures. Certainly some research is considered archane. I remember first reading about a biology prof who focused his research efforts on bird mating and migrating habits and thought-wow, how little use is that? Only a few years later it turned out his research was vital to understanding the transmission of bird flu....

Cossack talks a lot a bit about research productivity. Let's assume for a moment that USM does outproduce Ole Miss and State in the "research" category (whether that is research papers, books, artistic performances, exhibitions, or other forms of research that are lumped into that broad category). Academia is blinded by the thought that research equals quality. For the 90% of students that do not attempt a graduate degree, research means little, as it does to the largest part of the community. We don't read your "scholarly works" and we don't care about what books you edited. What we want is for our children/family members/neighbors to get the best possible education in the classroom. We want them to be able to know enough so that they will be able to get jobs without having to get a masters degree. Research is what you care about, but teaching is what we care about. There are far too many classes at USM where a professor gets up there and talks off the top of his head for 30 minutes or an hour without ever talking about facts or what's in the course textbook. This isn't acceptable. If you can't stop this B.S. then it will be stopped for you. That's a part of the IHL's plans.


I simply can't let the post below go unanswered either. I've been a USM administrator for 5 years (almost 6) and have numerous Cost-Benefit analysis on the liberal arts. They are, and have been at least for these past 5 years, among the MOST PROFITABLE units on campus. English, Philosophy, History--all produce 3 or 4 times their costs in student tuition dollars alone. I've got the numbers to back it up and have shared them many times with higher administration at USM who know well and appreciate the fact that the liberal arts generally helps pay for many of the more costly units on campus....
Angeline talks about USM not being able to be a for-profit organization. Do you not realize that it's O.K. for some parts of USM to be for-profit while others operate at a loss, just as long as the whole university isn't making a profit? I would bet that an audit of the USM books would show that several of the liberal arts departments do not pay their own way even with all the state, federal, and tuition dollars they receive. I'd bet there are other areas that more than pay their own way and that the extra money has to go to subsidize the departments that suck up resources. How can USM attract more students? By making enough money so that tuition, fees, and other costs can be reduced, making education more affordable to more people. USM may not be able to raise tuition on its own, but I'd bet that nobody would say a word to stop it if USM dropped its tuition.

Again, from working as an administrator, I can assure you that faculty at USM are, for the most part, constantly adjusting and improving their "product." But their adjustments are made on the basis of outcomes--or what students are, or are not, learning. That is what our accrediting body--SACS--requires of us. We are not allowed to pander to student desires or we risk losing our accreditation and ultimately our ability to attract and offer Financial Aid to students.


Finally, in response to a number of the posts I've read recently, I must rebut the notion that our president is trying to move us away from research and toward a more teaching-focused style. Dr. Thames has many goals, but if you'll check today's Hattiesburg American, or read the text of any of his speeches in public forums in the last 4 years, I don't think you'll see any mention of trying to make USM a "teaching-focused" institution. Indeed, just a couple of weeks ago he once again asserted strongly that USM should try to emulate the top 100 research universities and quit worrying about its in-state competition.....Why? Because research and the dollars that come with it for many of the faculty, are a badly-needed source of funding to help prop up the university's finances while holding tuition down.

Just my 2-cents from 5+ years of observation "from the inside"


I work in a world where if my product doesn't sell, I have to make it better or cut the price. All Dr. Thames wants is to have a better teaching school and lower cost to the student, which is what we the taxpayers and parents/students/families who pay tuition and your salaries want. It's time you listen to us and give us what we want instead of telling us how we need something else. When I go to a steak restaurant I want to order my steak like I want it, not like the cook wants to cook it. When my son goes to college I want him to get an education that will get him a job, not an education that will have him waiting tables until he's 50.

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