Things I've Learned from AAUP - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 22, 2006

Things I've Learned from AAUP

Date: Feb 22, 2006

I don't think you're new to this board at all.

I wonder how you can make statements about "most" faculty, when "most" don't post here, and many who post here are not faculty, or at least are no longer at USM.

You should also remember that this board has an express agenda, and is not required to grant "freedom of speech" although in practice it actually does. It is not bound by the US Constitution. It does not require membership or identification, and as long as I've been posting here has never been censored except for some extremely violent or slanderous content. If you have issues with things that are posted (and I certainly do) your issue is with that poster, not with the entire faculty of USM.

There is no way to tell who is posting, or under how many names. Therefore it is difficult to make the sorts of generalizations you are making.

Date: Feb 22, 2006

I've learned that silence equals complicity.

I've learned that those who will not speak out on a topic often do not out of fear but sometimes do not because to speak out would damage their chances of self-advancement.

Date: Feb 22, 2006

And your name is . . .?

Date: Feb 22, 2006

I've learned (the hard way) that when one's wife still works at USM in an at-will capacity, it is imprudent to put her in an untenable position by broadcasting my beliefs publicly.

Date: Feb 22, 2006

I've learned that the USM AAUP chapter has the guts to speak out and take other actions designed to make the university an academically safe place to work and study.

Date: Feb 22, 2006

LVN, I think this is a little deeper than you are reading it. Why is there so much division on the board right now? Maybe it's because we have lost our common focus and our innate differences are taking over. Maybe it's because one and one-half years ago, four colleges rallied around colleagues from the fifth, yet now some colleges are being undermined in their fight to clean up their more local problems by colleagues in other colleges. Maybe it's because adding a new president on top of USM current crop of deans will only perpetuate the current ills. Maybe it's because a blatant power and money grab by some deans is being condoned, when the same action by SFT would be reviled.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Dear Sir or Madam,

Learning in Retirement is a posting name already in use. Please use another name.

Thank you.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Might the original poster be guilty of the one-college focus of which he accuses others? The attempted firing of Glamser and Stringer happened in to faculty in CoAL, but the faculty outcry would have been the same had it been in another college. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

If there is a substantive complaint, it should be taken to the Faculty Senate.

JL

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Shame be to him who thinks evil of it!

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Dear Learning in retirement (not the original),

No matter what you may think of the AAUP, you surely must have learned this: that Shelby Thames has taken a decent, regional university and turned it into the laughing stock of serious academia; that most of the faculty have reacted honorably to defend the institution; that faculty care about their students and worry about the downward spiral of the university, not just for themselves but for the publicly perceived prestige of the degrees that the students are awarded; and that human nature is the same no matter what one's profession is.

I was not a member of AAUP before the appointment of SFT, but I am thankful for its voice and for this board. It has been a life saver for me.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Might the original poster be guilty of the one-college focus of which he accuses others? The attempted firing of Glamser and Stringer happened in to faculty in CoAL, but the faculty outcry would have been the same had it been in another college. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Professor Lares, I respect your scholarship and your courage. You have few equals at USM. You also can converse in a foreign language while I can only converse in passable English and red-neckese. While I would have agreed with your statement when Glamser and Stringer were fired, I have grave doubts about it today. I would have stood up for Gary Stringer because I knew him personally and he too has few equals as an academic and a person. But, I joined with others in the University to protest these actions because they were a threat to all of us and to the integrity of the university. But today, I have great doubts that faculty in COAL would stand up for a faculty member of COB. The animosity exhibited towards COB leads me to believe that most would cheer if a faulty member from COB were fired. We are disliked for many reasons, the two primary reasons are that we have higher salaries on average and we are both culturally and political conservative. Among the many bad outcomes of SFT has been to exacerbate the feelings of ill will between some colleges.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Cossack, remember half of COAL is gone. Also, I've never heard anyone I know from COAL express the sentiments you attribute to them.

Professor Lares can answer you for herself of course, but at the moment she's enroute to a conference overseas.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Professor Lares can answer you for herself of course, but at the moment she's enroute to a conference overseas.

Just one more indication of why she is such a valuable asset to her department, college, and university.

I do not doubt your sincerity about the lack of comments. Nonetheless, I detect that what I have described does exist and influences the behavior of some. The fact that I detect it has some significance since no one has ever called me a sensitive dude.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Cossack wrote:

The fact that I detect it has some significance since no one has ever called me a sensitive dude.

All is not lost. At least you have been called "Dude," by Hal Doty, right?

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Hipster wrote:

Cossack wrote: The fact that I detect it has some significance since no one has ever called me a sensitive dude. All is not lost. At least you have been called "Dude," by Hal Doty, right?

Hal Doty? Do you mean Harold Doty? Dude, Doty calls everyone dude.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Cossack wrote:

Might the original poster be guilty of the one-college focus of which he accuses others? The attempted firing of Glamser and Stringer happened in to faculty in CoAL, but the faculty outcry would have been the same had it been in another college. Honi soit qui mal y pense. Professor Lares, I respect your scholarship and your courage. You have few equals at USM. You also can converse in a foreign language while I can only converse in passable English and red-neckese. While I would have agreed with your statement when Glamser and Stringer were fired, I have grave doubts about it today. I would have stood up for Gary Stringer because I knew him personally and he too has few equals as an academic and a person. But, I joined with others in the University to protest these actions because they were a threat to all of us and to the integrity of the university. But today, I have great doubts that faculty in COAL would stand up for a faculty member of COB. The animosity exhibited towards COB leads me to believe that most would cheer if a faulty member from COB were fired. We are disliked for many reasons, the two primary reasons are that we have higher salaries on average and we are both culturally and political conservative. Among the many bad outcomes of SFT has been to exacerbate the feelings of ill will between some colleges.

Hi Cossack.

I've been away pretty long just trying to keep my head above water but I wanted to respond to this one. I think, especially at the senior faculty level, that there are a lot of friendships and aquaintanceships that cross disciplinary lines. Most of those of us on university committees have interacted with a number of people from other schools and colleges, and in my experience that exposure tends to help play against the stereotypes we have of one another to which you obliquely refer.

I believe that you are right about G&S in the sense that those who knew them WELL came to their defense right away, because they knew from experience that accusations from the administration were likely to be false given the character of them men. But given the administration's public certitude that they had engaged in criminal actions and its self-righteous defence of AD, many faculty members in other departments who did not know them were undoubtedly uncertain of which version of the truth was likely to be the correct one.

I think what we saw was that faculty as a whole responded to the threat posed by the firing of two faculty and particularly to the manner the attempt to fire them played out. I also think that as time passed and the administration's transparent dishonesty became more and more clear, faculty members who did not know Gary or Frank personally did become more supportive, even it was within their own circles.

My point is that I think you are right that CoAL faculty might not rush right to the aid of a COB faculty member unless they knew the faculty member and the accusation was clearly out of chraracter; or until the had determined something of the character of the faculty member and weighed it against the character of the administration. I think that is only prudent -- an education does not alone confer good character. But I think it generaly would not be because CoAL faculty members think COB faculty are bad or "lesser" people.

In my own personal experience, I have enjoyed my associations with my colleagues in business, who I find no more or less perfect than my own collegues in theatre or in CoAL.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

Professor Judd,

I appreciate your kind words, but you have more faith in how faculty in other colleges would respond to a similar problem in COB than I do. I too have enjoyed interacting with faculty from other colleges on committees and other activities. But I do not confuse these individual relationships with the view that faculty in other colleges have of COB faculty in general. That said, the situation at USM is much better than at many other Universities. The hostilities are much more evident at many other campuses, particularly at the most prestigious ones. It was not the Business School that wanted President Summers gone. Having expressed my opinion, I do not think it useful to continue this discussion. There is a conflict of views, but it more important to all colleges that USM regain some of the momentum that has been lost. We would all be better off with better leadership at the top, and the middle, and the bottom.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

This is how all faculty should carry out their differences in opinions. Kudos to you all.

Date: Feb 23, 2006

stephen judd wrote:

But given the administration's public certitude that they had engaged in criminal actions and its self-righteous defence of AD, many faculty members in other departments who did not know them were undoubtedly uncertain of which version of the truth was likely to be the correct one.

Hey Judd, what's your social security number? I'd like to go digging in your past. I need you to tell me yourself, otherwise its fraud which is ILLEGAL

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Cossack wrote:

\ Nonetheless, I detect that what I have described does exist and influences the behavior of some. The fact that I detect it has some significance since no one has ever called me a sensitive dude.

Cossack:

I believe your perceptions are inaccurate. I have been in on many "down and dirty" discussions of life in the academic lane, and have never heard anyone malign business faculty in the manner you suggest. People in CoAL understand the reality (if not always the necessity) of market forces in hiring qualified professionals in all fields. There is of course much cheerful stereotyping (robber baron business types, fuzzy-headed liberal arts loonies, weirdo art folk, nerd-geek science recluses, etc.); but when the chips are down, I have no doubt that we all still support each other.

The poster above points out the huge exodus of faculty; and this has led ineluctably to a large number of new, untenured colleagues, who are understandably scared $h!tless to say a word--a pretty reasonable position, given the jackboot proclivities of this regime. But in private, even they, and certainly their older colleagues, stand ready to support Business or any other faculty. The only problem with the CoB has been the flood of information, much of it arcane, much of it intentionally obscured, which has kept many people confused. Like many others, I have close friends in CoB, whose integrity is unassailable. If they asked for my support, I would be there in a heartbeat. If I need info on a situation in CoB, I know I can rely on them for an accurate assessment.

While there are no absolutes (recall that some 35 faculty voted "confidence" in Thames), I think you should take heart at the extent of solidarity which still exists. Seems to me you might have slid past "sensitive dude" on to "hypersensitive dude." As far as I can tell, nobody (except for SFT & Co.) is out to get you, and nobody has time for jealousy. Business types can be forgiven for thinking that money is the only measure of worth. If you can work past the yowling and posturing, you will find that CoAL types in fact as well as theory believe that there are more important standards of excellence, and they are willing to live by them. Because of the very nature of its disciplines, I believe CoAL remains a bastion of support for academic freedom and shared governance, for all.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

I appreciate the heartfelt responses to my post. My observations about how COB is viewed were not directed to any individual in another college. In my many years here, I have never been shown anything but respect in my interactions with colleagues from other colleges. I hope that I treated others equally well. Since I graduated from a liberal arts college, I am a firm supporter of the role of liberal arts in the curriculum. I also lamented the exodus of renowned liberal arts faculty who left for kinder environments. I fear we may lose more.

Collectively, colleges are not as benign. On top of the turmoil at the University and in COB, I receive a memo that notifies us that we likely will not have graduate assistants after this year. COB will be excluded because we do not have a doctorate program. We do not have a doctorate program because the faculty and administrators do not believe we have the resources to have a quality program and we do not want a bad program just to say we have one. We know that if we did have a doctorate in COB our graduates would not be competitive in the job market, a situation not unknown among graduates of current doctorate programs at USM.

Consequently, the GAs positions formerly in COB will be spread across campus, mainly to COAL and COST. What this tells me is that other colleges view COB as a non-research college. The truth is that the publication record of COB exceeds that of comparable Business Schools. When pointing out the inequity of excluding the COB from GA money, there is a loud silence and the topic changes. When your college is publicly demoted to second class through actions of other colleges and the administration, you conclude that it is not an oversight or accident.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Cossack wrote:

I appreciate the heartfelt responses to my post. My observations about how COB is viewed were not directed to any individual in another college. In my many years here, I have never been shown anything but respect in my interactions with colleagues from other colleges. I hope that I treated others equally well. Since I graduated from a liberal arts college, I am a firm supporter of the role of liberal arts in the curriculum. I also lamented the exodus of renowned liberal arts faculty who left for kinder environments. I fear we may lose more. Collectively, colleges are not as benign. On top of the turmoil at the University and in COB, I receive a memo that notifies us that we likely will not have graduate assistants after this year. COB will be excluded because we do not have a doctorate program. We do not have a doctorate program because the faculty and administrators do not believe we have the resources to have a quality program and we do not want a bad program just to say we have one. We know that if we did have a doctorate in COB our graduates would not be competitive in the job market, a situation not unknown among graduates of current doctorate programs at USM. Consequently, the GAs positions formerly in COB will be spread across campus, mainly to COAL and COST. What this tells me is that other colleges view COB as a non-research college. The truth is that the publication record of COB exceeds that of comparable Business Schools. When pointing out the inequity of excluding the COB from GA money, there is a loud silence and the topic changes. When your college is publicly demoted to second class through actions of other colleges and the administration, you conclude that it is not an oversight or accident.

Cossack, faculty in CoST also respect their colleagues in CoB. It isn't a question of like or dislike, salary envy, or what have you; we will stand by principles of academia (when we can). Many faculty in CoST can't (or are afraid to) speak out because they have been bought and paid for. Their research requires so much initial support to get started, they feel disloyal to speak out against those that put up the money and on whom they depend for support.

The real reason CoB is losing GAs is because the CoST dean used the CoB arguments against them. SFT wants to run this as a business (granted, a poorly run business) so MONEY is king. CoST pointed out that they could "bring in more money" if they had more support. GAs are the slave labor in the research labs that produce the big profits. It is SFT thirst for the $$$ that will caused the shift in GAs.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

I do not know of any CoB faculty who want USM run like a business, with the possible expection of the dean (Have you heard enough about him to know he's a wacko yet?). CoB faculty generally appreciate the contributions of all colleges to the university concept. However, we are now at a point where we feel isolated by the actions of our colleagues in other colleges. If GAs are removed from the CoB, then what is next? Will CoAL and CoST stand mute while the CoB is stripped of travel money because we do not support a doctoral program? What will the reaction from non-CoBers be when the CoB begins to lose computer tech support from iTech because the resources must be reallocated to the doctoral programs in other colleges?

Apparently many CoST faculty are "golden handcuffed" to their benefactor in the Dome. This is good to know, because I will now stop expecting a show of support for the latest victim of Shelby's hit-and-run gang, the CoB.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Heart-Shaped Box wrote:

... Apparently many CoST faculty are "golden handcuffed" to their benefactor in the Dome. This is good to know, because I will now stop expecting a show of support for the latest victim of Shelby's hit-and-run gang, the CoB.

Given a secret ballot like we had for G&S on the No Confidence issue, the CoST faculty will stand by principles. If you expect individuals to speak out against their dean for finding them more graduate assistantships you expect too much. Some programs in CoST may even have reduced GAs as assistantships are moved to the big money departments. The arguments presented are in terms of sound investment of limited resources. We need strong counterarguments. These people don't seem to understand academic arguments, but business arguments.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Cossack,

Sorry for my delay in responding, and thanks for your kind words to me and especially for your explanation of the rather cryptic post that began this thread. I now see it as a cri de coeur over lost GA monies.

I really was serious--albeit probably not clear--about going to the Faculty Senate on this issue. It seems to me that every time monies are in danger of being swept that we need to stand together and, if possible, reach a consensus as a faculty so that we can live with the results.

I don't particularly know people in liberal arts who are envious per se of the higher salaries paid, say, to business. I imagine it's the same for the arts. Most of us wanted to do what we're doing, and we realized when we went into the liberal arts that the salaries would be lower. Relatively. What's discouraging is when our university seems to work the hardest in the state but certainly gets the least funding.

As, as voter says, I have wonderful colleagues in the COB.

Cheers from England. My checked bag was last seen in Memphis, but I don't seem as jetlagged as usual, so that's something.

Jameela

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Learning in Retirement wrote:
. I've learned that many of the so-called "logicians" and "critical thinkers" are often incapable of fairly assessing facts that may contradict their personal political/social beliefs.

As a neutral and outside observer,item 13 on logic is so strikingly true. This is why I'd never send a child of mine to USM. I don't mind liberalism or conservatism I just want intellectual honesty and it is sadly lacking at USM.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

College parent wrote:

Learning in Retirement wrote:. I've learned that many of the so-called "logicians" and "critical thinkers" are often incapable of fairly assessing facts that may contradict their personal political/social beliefs.

As a neutral and outside observer,item 13 on logic is so strikingly true. This is why I'd never send a child of mine to USM. I don't mind liberalism or conservatism I just want intellectual honesty and it is sadly lacking at USM.

Can you please give us and example of your experience of this, College Parent?

Date: Feb 24, 2006

College parent wrote:

Learning in Retirement wrote:. I've learned that many of the so-called "logicians" and "critical thinkers" are often incapable of fairly assessing facts that may contradict their personal political/social beliefs.
As a neutral and outside observer,item 13 on logic is so strikingly true. This is why I'd never send a child of mine to USM. I don't mind liberalism or conservatism I just want intellectual honesty and it is sadly lacking at USM.

To the contrary, I found this not to be true at all. Of course, in any profession there are always a few that are not logical, but in my experience, at USM, there are very, very few.

Date: Feb 24, 2006

Professor Lares,

Thank you for responding. I hope your luggage catches up with you soon. I envy you being there because of the many outstanding beers they have. New Castle Brown Ale is my favorite. Fortunately you can buy it here now. Hopefully there will be no more events that warrant us manning the barricades between now and he departure of our President.

On a happier subject, do you have the phone number for Gary Stringer. I will be delivering a paper at Texas A&M in April and I would like to stop by and see him. If you do, I will contact you when you get back. There is no reason to put his number on the Board.