Raising the Recruiting Grade at UH - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 11, 2005

Raising the Recruiting Grade at UH

Date: Dec 11, 2005

The idea of raising standards to get better students is a sound one. A little bit of quality sells. Of course, a 21 ACT requirement at USM would take out half the freshman class.

Date: Dec 11, 2005

What is so wrong with giving kids a chance. I did not know we were Princeton or Yale. I know a 21 is hardly a genius however I dont think its a indicator of future sucess either.

I am still a young man but in my life I have seen a high school drop out obtain 2 undergrad degress and a masters while a straight A in high school, 28 on the act scoring person has now dropped out of three universities.

That is one thing that I love about USM. Its inclusive not exclusive. You get here you have a chance if you try hard and do your studies. If you start excluding and become more elitist ala Ole Miss you gonna trash what this university is about. We may not be the most prestigious academic institution but we do educate those who stay. We have put out contributing individuals into the work place. That is what a university is about, not educating those with the highest act score or most extracirricular activites.

I dont want to take the chance of cutting out any student who truely wants to excel regardless of their grades in high school or act score. Kinda like alot of people on here complaining about being left out of decisions made by the administration for no other reason than they are the faculty. Would suck to keep a kid out of a chance at a college education at this institution just because they did poorly on a test.

Date: Dec 11, 2005

Rand Davidson wrote:

What is so wrong with giving kids a chance.

Mr. Davidson, there is little damage done by giving a few kids a chance. The problem occurs when half the people in the room and on the campus are ill prepared. That causes the level of required reading, writing and thinking to go down to high school or junior high school level, and you no longer are teaching on the university level. If you try, the students get surly, and student evals of teaching go down. If you flunk "too many," retention suffers, and your department loses positions. All the pressures are for lower standards. At USM a 3.0 GPA puts you in the bottom half of the senior class.

When standards go down, the victims are the better prepared and more able students who do not get pushed to achieve. Their plans for law school, medical school, or grad school are often dashed by low scores on national exams caused by low level demands in their undergraduate program, especially in the general education core.

Another effect of low standards is that many people graduate who are unqualified for their position in society. When such people end up in the front of public school classrooms in Mississippi, the process enters a downward spiral.
A final observation is that university professors are untrained and unqualified to do remedial education. Mississippi has a very well developed system of community colleges that offer remedial work and small classes. That is where we should "give a kid a chance." The ones who do well can go to a university for university level instruction.

Date: Dec 11, 2005

The UH site states: "The university wants to enhance its Honors College, hoping the intellectually vigorous environment will attract more top students. At the same time, recruiters will promote the one-on-one opportunities that students have with professors." Didn't our HC go through a change with a similar goal recently -- one that met with more than a little criticism?

Date: Dec 11, 2005

Sympathetic, Understanding, and Giving wrote:

Rand Davidson wrote: What is so wrong with giving kids a chance. Mr. Davidson, there is little damage done by giving a few kids a chance. The problem occurs when half the people in the room and on the campus are ill prepared. That causes the level of required reading, writing and thinking to go down to high school or junior high school level, and you no longer are teaching on the university level. If you try, the students get surly, and student evals of teaching go down. If you flunk "too many," retention suffers, and your department loses positions. All the pressures are for lower standards. At USM a 3.0 GPA puts you in the bottom half of the senior class. When standards go down, the victims are the better prepared and more able students who do not get pushed to achieve. Their plans for law school, medical school, or grad school are often dashed by low scores on national exams caused by low level demands in their undergraduate program, especially in the general education core. Another effect of low standards is that many people graduate who are unqualified for their position in society. When such people end up in the front of public school classrooms in Mississippi, the process enters a downward spiral. A final observation is that university professors are untrained and unqualified to do remedial education. Mississippi has a very well developed system of community colleges that offer remedial work and small classes. That is where we should "give a kid a chance." The ones who do well can go to a university for university level instruction.

Excellent post. You made all of the points I was going to address.

Date: Dec 12, 2005

Your Honor wrote:

Didn't our HC go through a change with a similar goal recently -- one that met with more than a little criticism?

Our HC has declined in many respects in recent years--it demands much less of its students. HC hasn't been the same since Dean Ryan left it.

Date: Dec 12, 2005

HC alum -- do you have evidence to back your claims of the HC expecting less of its students or are they just based on what you hear?

Date: Dec 12, 2005

Your Honor wrote:

HC alum -- do you have evidence to back your claims of the HC expecting less of its students or are they just based on what you hear?

You don't have to have evidence to post on this board. Hearsay is fine.

Date: Dec 12, 2005

Southern Miss Alum wrote:

You don't have to have evidence to post on this board. Hearsay is fine.

And you don't have to have evidence that there was an increase in enrollment, or what we are the largest university in Mississippi, or that operate through sshared governance, or have due process, or that everything here is world class. Hearsay is fine.

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Your Honor wrote:

do you have evidence to back your claims of the HC expecting less of its students or are they just based on what you hear?

Your Honor, one bit of data about the Honors College being less demanding than previously is the fact that the interdisciplinary colloquium has been dropped because it was seen as too demanding by many students. That course involved a great deal of reading, writing, and thinking and, thus, had become a retention issue. Now that the course is gone, retention in the HC has increased greatly.

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Scurrilous gossip alert:
(You've been warned.)

I had it on the usual "good authority" that this was the result of a Thames grandchild having trouble with the program.
Any chance that post-SFT we'll get our program back?

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Well, say what you will about the USM Honors program but be aware the Ole Miss' touted Sally McDonnell Barksdale Honors College is recruiting some real pumpkin heads!

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Invictus wrote:

the Ole Miss' touted Sally McDonnell Barksdale Honors College

If the USM Honors College ever becomes 'touted' enough to carry the name of a living, breathing human being, I wonder who it will be.

Date: Dec 13, 2005

Joe Bob on the harmonica wrote:

If the USM Honors College ever becomes 'touted' enough to carry the name of a living, breathing human being, I wonder who it will be.

For starters, Joe Bob, take a look at the names on some of our buildings.