Intellectual Property Question - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Oct 28, 2005

Intellectual Property Question

Date: Oct 28, 2005

It is not clear that your lecture is your intellectual property. It may belong to the university who has hired you to prepare and deliver the lecture. Further, the university may have the right to record your lecture whether you like it or not. This is a very tricky area and there is little or no case law to date.

Date: Oct 28, 2005

Quite apart from the matter of whether your presentations are your intellectual property, lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year. Not a sound educational practice. Moreover, using out of date material at a later date could cause great embarrasment to the person to whom that archaic material is attributed. The content of most disciplines changes over time. I'd be pi***d if the university used my current presentations at a future date without my expressed permission.

Date: Oct 28, 2005

Video Killed the Radio Star wrote:

Suppose you were asked to teach in an online program and that your in-class lectures would be digitally recorded and stored (by the university or its representatives) so that online students could view these lectures. How would you feel about turning in a "digital" performance that could very easily be copied and used ad infinitum to motivate a totally online course? Someone recently posed this question to me and I was really uncomfortable with turning over my lectures to be used in this format. Am I the only one?

No, you are not alone. This is an issue many other universities have been dealing with. When I was at SUNY New Paltz the union and Faculty Senate were hugely involved in this issue.

Of course anyone can steal your work unless you take steps to prevent it (and your university should actually aid you in this if doing on-line work is in its interest). But the intellectual property should be yours unless some previous deal has been struck concerning some royalty percentage the university might get from future sales if the university has provided resources for you to develop the classes. That is royalty sharing -- but a faculty member should never be compelled to sell rights to a proerty the faculty member has develped.

Most smart universities realize that, given the gorwth of knowlege and the way in which teaching and the personality of the teacher (even in an on-line format) are closely linked, it really isn;t worth it to steal on-line clesses and lectures.

The greater threat may be from individuals who will take the work and use it by incorporatoing it in their own without attribution.

I haven't read anything specific, but I would be amazed if the AAUP doesn't have some language that at least addresses some general scenerio here.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

not a lawyer,

Given your line of reasoning, one would also say that since the university hires faculty to do research that the faculty's research belongs to the university as well. We know that this is untrue. I think your logic is flawed with respect to the lectures as well.

On another note, I was disturbed to read that USM is considering the digital route. It's a slippery slope, and only a few steps away from U of Phoenix. Does anyone know if these planned courses are voluntary (on the instructor's part) or mandatory (i.e., Are faculty being told they must teach in this format?)?

Date: Oct 29, 2005

"lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year"

This actually describes a lot of the classes I have taken here, same content that my mother heard 20 years ago from the same professor.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

and your point is wrote:

"lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year" This actually describes a lot of the classes I have taken here, same content that my mother heard 20 years ago from the same professor.

This kind of comment makes me tired. Do you prepare for class? Do you ask questions/make comments/give examples? Are you actively involved in the discussions? Or, do you sit passively...wait for something to be written on the board so you can copy it down and memorize it...chat with the student next to you? daydream? do you read anything beyond what you're forced to read? (if you even read that?)...given what most professors find sitting in their classes, how could you possibly expect them to be motivated to update their notes? now...on top of that...add the USM administration....

Date: Oct 29, 2005

not a lawyer wrote:

It is not clear that your lecture is your intellectual property. It may belong to the university who has hired you to prepare and deliver the lecture. Further, the university may have the right to record your lecture whether you like it or not. This is a very tricky area and there is little or no case law to date.

Hogwash! When you publish an article who owns the copyright?: the journal and/or the writer NOT the university. When you publish a book who owns the copyright?: the press and/or the writer NOT the university. Lectures are no different in my view. They are mine and mine only and would have been created wherever I may have been / will be teaching and are thus not dependent in the least on the (scant) resources of USM.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Outside Observer wrote:

given what most professors find sitting in their classes, how could you possibly expect them to be motivated to update their notes? now...on top of that...add the USM administration....

Because I am a professional. Or at least I thought I was a professional before I had the misfortune of arriving here. I refuse to allow the university drag me down. I am still a professional.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Agreed. It should be your own sense of pride that pushes you to make your class new and vibrant every year. A bad administration used as an excuse for mediocrity should be unacceptable.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

and your point is wrote:

"lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year" This actually describes a lot of the classes I have taken here, same content that my mother heard 20 years ago from the same professor.

"And your Point", it all depends on the subject. For example, in math the content of calculus hasn't really changed in over a couple hundred years. In some introductory basic science courses like physics they are lucky to reach material discovered in the 1930s.

Teaching methods have changed in these subjects. Seems like they change every ten years as new education PhDs publish new dissertations. In my opinion most of it is to try to get students who refuse to study to pass test. It doesn't work as far as educating people to reason as it was in my day. Mostly it makes it easier for students to past test without too much effort on their part. And the tests are easier too.

So the question is: Why make new lecture notes on material that is several hundred years old and can easily be learned by studying and problem solving?

The answer is: Today students will not put in the required time to study and problem solve. The education industry is making a fortune developing "magic pills" to some this problem. They work about as good a diet pills.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

and your point is wrote:

"lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year"
This actually describes a lot of the classes I have taken here, same content that my mother heard 20 years ago from the same professor.

AYPI, I find your claim hard to credit, unless your mother kept impeccable notes and you have had the scholarly patience to sit down and compare them at length with the ones you've taken more recently. And had you done so and found even one such course unsatisfactory, why in the world would you have taken "a lot of" them?

JL

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Jameela Lares wrote:

and your point is wrote:
"lectures do become old and out of date. The university's use of a faculty member's online material could be the equivalent of using old musty, dusty, yellow lectures notes year after year"
This actually describes a lot of the classes I have taken here, same content that my mother heard 20 years ago from the same professor.

AYPI, I find your claim hard to credit, unless your mother kept impeccable notes and you have had the scholarly patience to sit down and compare them at length with the ones you've taken more recently. And had you done so and found even one such course unsatisfactory, why in the world would you have taken "a lot of" them?

JL

Jameela,

My thoughts exactly. The chance that a student would have the same professor for the same course as his mother had 20 years ago is low. That this would happen "a lot" is extremely unlikely. This person is making things up to make our faculty look bad. It's not the first time.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Old Prof wrote:

Teaching methods have changed in these subjects. Seems like they change every ten years as new education PhDs publish new dissertations.

An old fashioned black slate chalkoard and plenty of chalk works better than any of the newfangled soon-to-be forgotten" suggestions produced by those dissertations.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Jameela Lares wrote:

AYPI, I find your claim hard to credit, unless your mother kept impeccable notes and you have had the scholarly patience to sit down and compare them at length with the ones you've taken more recently.

In the unlikely event AUYPI did have his mother's notes, I doubt he would be able to dicepher them because they'd probably be written in Gregg Shorthand.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Old Student wrote:

An old fashioned black slate chalkoard and plenty of chalk works better than any of the newfangled soon-to-be forgotten" suggestions produced by those dissertations.

I agree Old Student. Sometimes I wonder if those d*mn administrators get kickbacks for pushing that newfangled technology. Anyone can copy and put up power point (PP). You have to know your stuff and be capable of thinking on your feet to do a chalk talk for 50 minutes using notes only for reference. Of course low quality teachers who "read the book to the students" find the PP perfect to hide their ignorance. The administration should love the low cost of hiring poor teachers with a lot of "bells and whistles" instead of knowledge and experience.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Old Prof wrote:

I agree Old Student. Sometimes I wonder if those d*mn administrators get kickbacks for pushing that newfangled technology. Anyone can copy and put up power point (PP). You have to know your stuff and be capable of thinking on your feet to do a chalk talk for 50 minutes using notes only for reference. Of course low quality teachers who "read the book to the students" find the PP perfect to hide their ignorance. The administration should love the low cost of hiring poor teachers with a lot of "bells and whistles" instead of knowledge and experience.

I use PP, primarily because my handwriting is so bad. But I fully agree with Old Prof. When the PP craps out, I have no problem using chalk (or marker) and board. When I do PP, it is a mere outline to help guide the lecture. Anything busier makes active learning difficult for students, I believe.

Another point. When the book hucksters try to get me to switch to their text, they tend to show me pretty lights and techie stuff. In fact, most texts have swollen with "pedagogical aids." When I asked one book rep for data to support the notion that their fancy text boxes, appendices, web materials, fun critical thinking exercises in the margins, blah, blah, blah make learning more efficient or lead to better learning outcomes, it was clear that was the first time someone had asked her this question (and she didn't know the answer). This is not a trivial issue. These are labor intensive to develop, and add heft to the weight and price of a text. I tell book reps and publishers that accuracy, coverage, good writing, and simplicity of presentation are the selling points for me. I guess they don't hear that much....

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Sorry Ol Prof, I don't agree. Good teachers are good teachers and poor ones are poor...advanced technology won't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but neither will chalk. I can tailor a lesson to a class of 15 or 150, conduct it as a discussion or a lecture, use technology or chalk. I love powerpoint and have found its major advantage is that I never have to lose eye contact with my students.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Mitch wrote:

When the PP craps out, I have no problem using chalk (or marker) and board.

That's the true test!

Date: Oct 29, 2005

does our president, give up his rights in his specialized training program for prospective university presidents?
go to: thamespresidentialtraining.com

Date: Oct 29, 2005

I can agree with both Mitch and Power Pointer. What I was trying to point out was not all subjects are the same.

When a Math prof or a Mathematical Science prof uses power point the students question if the prof could work out the math steps if they didn't have it all written out. The students don't see how the derivation is developed. They don't realize the decisions and choices that have to be made or how diagrams are constructed etc. In these subjects the students are expected to do homework and solve problems on test that they have never seen before. To develop problem-solving skills it is imperative that students see how a person attacks problems with math and diagrams. Seeing the finished product in a book or seeing it done on power point is not seeing the development and construction need for problem solving.

Now these professors do use PP at professional meeting, but that is not the same as training and educating undergraduates.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Years ago, UNO filmed Stephen Ambrose's WWII lectures. Dr. Ambrose passed away in 2002, but students still see his video lectures in the course, which is taught by a historian who is still lives on this side of the river styx.

My understanding is that universities can claim copyright to a video lecture if they want to, the justification being that the lecture is work product created while on the clock, so to speak. This is a real issue in the sciences where universities claim a financial interest in the commercially valuable products produced by researchers in the lab.

I honestly don't know what USM's policy is in this area.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Old Prof wrote:

Old Student wrote: An old fashioned black slate chalkoard and plenty of chalk works better than any of the newfangled soon-to-be forgotten" suggestions produced by those dissertations. I agree Old Student. Sometimes I wonder if those d*mn administrators get kickbacks for pushing that newfangled technology. Anyone can copy and put up power point (PP). You have to know your stuff and be capable of thinking on your feet to do a chalk talk for 50 minutes using notes only for reference. Of course low quality teachers who "read the book to the students" find the PP perfect to hide their ignorance. The administration should love the low cost of hiring poor teachers with a lot of "bells and whistles" instead of knowledge and experience.

I think power point is a powerful tool -- the problem is that for too many users, it becomes the content rather than a visual aid. Not only can you produce excellent visuals, but I think using it to verbally summarize primary points is OK -- it can actually free you up to expand on the points and add content.

My biggest gripe as a victim of power pointers is that there is often no "there" there . . . that is to say, for the many hours I have sat in front of power point presentations, there has often been little real content - and the content that was there could have been better summed up in a ten minute, concise and well constructed talk.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

stephen judd wrote:

I think power point is a powerful tool -- the problem is that for too many users, it becomes the content rather than a visual aid. Not only can you produce excellent visuals, but I think using it to verbally summarize primary points is OK -- it can actually free you up to expand on the points and add content. My biggest gripe as a victim of power pointers is that there is often no "there" there . . . that is to say, for the many hours I have sat in front of power point presentations, there has often been little real content - and the content that was there could have been better summed up in a ten minute, concise and well constructed talk.

The medium is the message?

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Suggest all that worry about their works being ripped off become familiar
with THE DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT OF 1998, decide who has
copyright claims to works in question, and act accordingly.

Date: Oct 29, 2005

Old Student wrote:

An old fashioned black slate chalkoard and plenty of chalk works better than any of the newfangled soon-to-be forgotten" suggestions produced by those dissertations.

Most of the powerpoint talks I have attended seem to use powerpoint to cover up the lack of content. For the most part they seem to be hastily and lazily put together.

Date: Oct 30, 2005

Another potential problem with using power point in class ...especially detailed slides with lots of content, is that students want access to these slides...somewhat understandably...but they become very dependent on them...and their preparation for and participation in class declines.

Date: Oct 30, 2005

O.O. raises a good point. Students like powerpoint--they get it in the public schools. I know my middle school child uses it often in her classes.

But I'm struggling with how to use it effectively. I put the powerpoints up on WebCT. Many students print them out; some even fire up their laptops and connect via eagleair. Any tips?

Date: Oct 30, 2005

qwerty wrote:

Any tips?

I would just tell the students to scan the textbook. Call their attention to the pretty pictures.

Date: Oct 31, 2005

qwerty wrote:

O.O. raises a good point. Students like powerpoint--they get it in the public schools. I know my middle school child uses it often in her classes. But I'm struggling with how to use it effectively. I put the powerpoints up on WebCT. Many students print them out; some even fire up their laptops and connect via eagleair. Any tips?

I've gone to giving them access to stripped versions...primarily the textbook prepared slides, which are available on most publisher websites anyway. Then I add some material to the slides I use in class...if they want to memorize slides and not come to class...or not pay attention when they are there...they will miss lots of exam material. I think if you just put all of your slides on the web and give students, you're going to get a lot of students putting forth minimal effort.