This guy would be a great speaker for an AAUP meeting - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Oct 25, 2005

This guy would be a great speaker for an AAUP meeting

Date: Oct 25, 2005

I was thinking that Bill Bennett, Mr. Morals, would be better since he wants to kill all black babies to "reduce crime." There's plenty of wacko extremism on both sides.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

WEBMASTER, please delete this thread.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

ditto to lava....this board should have a higher level of dialogue and information.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Angeline wrote:

I was thinking that Bill Bennett, Mr. Morals, would be better since he wants to kill all black babies to "reduce crime." There's plenty of wacko extremism on both sides.

That's not what Bill Bennett said and you know it. If you are going to portray yourself as part of the university community you need to attempt to tell the truth.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

lava wrote:

WEBMASTER, please delete this thread.

Ditto. This is not worthy of this board.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Disgusted wrote:

Angeline wrote: I was thinking that Bill Bennett, Mr. Morals, would be better since he wants to kill all black babies to "reduce crime." There's plenty of wacko extremism on both sides. That's not what Bill Bennett said and you know it. If you are going to portray yourself as part of the university community you need to attempt to tell the truth.

Here's the money quote:

Bennett went on to say, "I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down."

Cited here, among many other places: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15363938&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18168&rfi=6

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Angeline wrote:

Disgusted wrote:
Angeline wrote: I was thinking that Bill Bennett, Mr. Morals, would be better since he wants to kill all black babies to "reduce crime." There's plenty of wacko extremism on both sides. That's not what Bill Bennett said and you know it. If you are going to portray yourself as part of the university community you need to attempt to tell the truth.

Here's the money quote:
Bennett went on to say, "I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down."
Cited here, among many other places: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15363938&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18168&rfi=6

You said Bill Bennett "wants to kill all black babies" That's not what his statement says . Your post is at best a distortion and more likely a lie.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Angeline wrote:

Here's the money quote: Bennett went on to say, "I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down." Cited here, among many other places: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15363938&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18168&rfi=6

Angeline, the whole conversation needs to be understood in context. The "Bennett went on to say" is not good enough to understand context. He was responding to an extreme idea by showing how ridiculous it would be. The idea was not his suggestion.

The ridiculous idea is that if any population is reduced the crime produced by that population would be reduced. He used the black population as an example because of the disproportion of crime in that population group. But he is pointing out how "ridiculous" and immoral that would be.

For the record I'm not a conservative. You do a disservice to my side when you make stupid attacks against conservatives. Please make your attacks intelligent in the future.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Another post by Angeline that just makes me shake my head and wonder about her commitment to objective reporting and other real ideals of a university. I respect her as someone who is opposed to Thames, but some of the other opinions she sometimes expresses here just truly puzzle me. I wish we could keep the focus on how Thames has ruined a great university.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

These posts illustrate an interesting problem in the academic community. Some institutions welcome a black extremist who advocates killing whites. But wait.We're doing it in the name of free speech.By golly, the academic community is the last bastion of free speech.You can even look at the top of this message board and read a glowing acknowledgement of the principle from Ms. Young. That's fair enough. Yet when some one like Bill Bennett makes a rhetorical point that is true but is perceived by some as offensive,he is subjected to vicious attacks. He is forced to cancel speaking engagements at colleges and universities because of security concerns.. You'll find no one protecting his free speech...... I have no problem if you like or dislike Bill Bennett or the black extremist. We have that privilege in the US. If you are a non public institution and want to ban Bennett from speaking,that's OK with me. However to portray yourself as an advocate of free speech and to banish conservative speakers at a public institution is gross hypocrisy.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Universities withdraw invitations to all sorts of folks (conservative, liberal, whatever) when those folks cross some sort of boundary. Doris Kearnes Goodwin is a non-political case in point--probably fairly liberal but not quite on the up and up in acknowledging sources. I doubt if Kambon has many invitations.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Fair an Balanced wrote:

These posts illustrate an interesting problem in the academic community. Some institutions welcome a black extremist who advocates killing whites. But wait.We're doing it in the name of free speech.By golly, the academic community is the last bastion of free speech.You can even look at the top of this message board and read a glowing acknowledgement of the principle from Ms. Young. That's fair enough. Yet when some one like Bill Bennett makes a rhetorical point that is true but is perceived by some as offensive,he is subjected to vicious attacks. He is forced to cancel speaking engagements at colleges and universities because of security concerns.. You'll find no one protecting his free speech...... I have no problem if you like or dislike Bill Bennett or the black extremist. We have that privilege in the US. If you are a non public institution and want to ban Bennett from speaking,that's OK with me. However to portray yourself as an advocate of free speech and to banish conservative speakers at a public institution is gross hypocrisy.

I, a nonconservative, concur.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

LeftASAP wrote:

Fair an Balanced wrote: These posts illustrate an interesting problem in the academic community. Some institutions welcome a black extremist who advocates killing whites. But wait.We're doing it in the name of free speech.By golly, the academic community is the last bastion of free speech.You can even look at the top of this message board and read a glowing acknowledgement of the principle from Ms. Young. That's fair enough. Yet when some one like Bill Bennett makes a rhetorical point that is true but is perceived by some as offensive,he is subjected to vicious attacks. He is forced to cancel speaking engagements at colleges and universities because of security concerns.. You'll find no one protecting his free speech...... I have no problem if you like or dislike Bill Bennett or the black extremist. We have that privilege in the US. If you are a non public institution and want to ban Bennett from speaking,that's OK with me. However to portray yourself as an advocate of free speech and to banish conservative speakers at a public institution is gross hypocrisy. I, a nonconservative, concur.

I am in the interesting position of having been elected AAUP President. Bill Bennett was a faculty at USM years ago (an instructor I believe), and I'd be thrilled to have him address the AAUP (though my political leanings are in the opposite direction). I also believe that the thoughts he expressed were an offshoot of the best seller, "Freakonomics" (an interesting book).

What some folks may not realize is that the AAUP at USM is not populated merely by political "liberals." In fact, many who have been in leadership roles in this organization hold decidedly conservative political views.

We are not a part of the university governance structure or a "union." Our purpose is to provide an independent forum for faculty voices, and to provide resources to address various faculty needs (for example, we hope to hold workshops this year on faculty professional development and personal finances). We aspire to represent the highest ideals of university life. As such, we will, as warranted, publish opinion statements related to university activities, including governance and administrative decisions.

You can reach me at mitchell.berman@usm.edu or 601-266-4570.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Mitch wrote:

What some folks may not realize is that the AAUP at USM is not populated merely by political "liberals." In fact, many who have been in leadership roles in this organization hold decidedly conservative political views.

Thanks for saying this. It needs repeating frequently, as people still don't understand the nature or function of the AAUP.

Date: Oct 25, 2005

Mitch:
Did you say Bennett used to teach at USM? I know he's a philosophy PhD from Texas, but I didn't know he was here. Do you know any details

Date: Oct 25, 2005

here's a link: http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-10_12_05_WB.html

Date: Oct 25, 2005

*** wrote:

here's a link: http://realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-10_12_05_WB.html

"In 1967-68, a tense year for race relations in America, I was in Mississippi. I was teaching there. I taught philosophy at the University of Southern Mississippi. What I became known for teaching was the philosophy of Martin Luther King, Jr., and his Letter from the Birmingham Jail. Not everyone there approved, believe me."

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Would this have been during the McCain era? Did Bill Scarborough know Bill B.?

Date: Oct 26, 2005

It was sometime in the mid to late 60's. McCain was pres. Bennett only stayed a year or two.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

foot soldier wrote:

Mitch wrote:

What some folks may not realize is that the AAUP at USM is not populated merely by political "liberals." In fact, many who have been in leadership roles in this organization hold decidedly conservative political views.

Thanks for saying this. It needs repeating frequently, as people still don't understand the nature or function of the AAUP.

My view of the AAUP is that it is indeed a very political entity. While it does provide useful services to our profession, it is very active in political causes. Worse still, the AAUP sometimes manages to dress up its political activism in academic regalia. I seem to recall that the AAUP supported discrimination by the University of Michigan against white law school applicants. I would really like to support the AAUP for the good things it does, but I refuse to underwrite this sort of behavior.

A colleague who joined AAUP here soon found himself receiving solicitations from the ACLU. He also received an offer to have his name placed on a brick in the Wall of Tolerance. No materials from any conservative organization were forthcoming.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

foot soldier wrote:

Mitch wrote:

My view of the AAUP is that it is indeed a very political entity. While it does provide useful services to our profession, it is very active in political causes. Worse still, the AAUP sometimes manages to dress up its political activism in academic regalia. I seem to recall that the AAUP supported discrimination by the University of Michigan against white law school applicants. I would really like to support the AAUP for the good things it does, but I refuse to underwrite this sort of behavior.

A colleague who joined AAUP here soon found himself receiving solicitations from the ACLU. He also received an offer to have his name placed on a brick in the Wall of Tolerance. No materials from any conservative organization were forthcoming.

This is a very fair and relevant post. I doubt that the university faculty is as liberal as other parts of the country. If I was describing the locals I might even use the term "fair and balanced." The national organizations that educators belong to though are so left wing it makes me sick. NEA,AAUP,etc. have values on social issues more in line with Michael Moore than with the average Mississippian.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

My view of the AAUP is that it is indeed a very political entity. While it does provide useful services to our profession, it is very active in political causes. Worse still, the AAUP sometimes manages to dress up its political activism in academic regalia. I seem to recall that the AAUP supported discrimination by the University of Michigan against white law school applicants. I would really like to support the AAUP for the good things it does, but I refuse to underwrite this sort of behavior. A colleague who joined AAUP here soon found himself receiving solicitations from the ACLU. He also received an offer to have his name placed on a brick in the Wall of Tolerance. No materials from any conservative organization were forthcoming.

Mr. Wizard:

If you are a faculty member, please join. Given the diverse political makeup of the USM chapter, as well as all the issues on our plate, direct involvement in political issues would be counterproductive. If you are a community member, feel free to contact me to chat at any time.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

My view of the AAUP is that it is indeed a very political entity. While it does provide useful services to our profession, it is very active in political causes. Worse still, the AAUP sometimes manages to dress up its political activism in academic regalia. I seem to recall that the AAUP supported discrimination by the University of Michigan against white law school applicants. I would really like to support the AAUP for the good things it does, but I refuse to underwrite this sort of behavior.

A colleague who joined AAUP here soon found himself receiving solicitations from the ACLU. He also received an offer to have his name placed on a brick in the Wall of Tolerance. No materials from any conservative organization were forthcoming.

I have been a member of AAUP for a long time, and have received no materials from any other organization as a result of this membership. I suspect that your colleague made a false connection between receipt of the ACLU materials and membership in the AAUP.

As for the situation you describe as "discrimination...against white law applicants," you know that this is a very slanted characterization of a complex case. Question for you: is there any organization you belong to or respect with which you agree on all issues? I certainly can't think of any for myself. Your remarks here regarding AAUP seem very anecdotal and thus not really very substantive. If you would regularly attend our AAUP meetings, you would find that they are focused almost exclusively on the corruption and mismanagement of the Thames regime.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

How many members do you have that attend regular meetings?

Date: Oct 26, 2005

If it were more than the number of times you have asked that question, it would be a sizeable number indeed.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

That is true, but I only ask, because I have never gotten a straight answer. I guess I will continue to go thru life not knowing if more than 8-10 people actually attend these meetings or not.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Kudzu King wrote:

That is true, but I only ask, because I have never gotten a straight answer. I guess I will continue to go thru life not knowing if more than 8-10 people actually attend these meetings or not.

Your d*** right its a lot more than that.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

100? 1000? 12? nobody knows, or at least nobody is willing to share.

Date: Oct 26, 2005

Kudzu King wrote:

100? 1000? 12? nobody knows, or at least nobody is willing to share.

So why don't you just go to one? I seriously doubt that anyone would care. You might even learn something that would change your prejudices. Mitch, why don't you invite K.K. to the next meeting?