A University Happening Right Now - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Oct 14, 2005

A University Happening Right Now

Date: Oct 15, 2005

This bandersnatch sounds frumious indeed! LC

Date: Oct 15, 2005

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

CHT, I disagree. What most people consider "the real world" is only a fragment of it. By "real world," most people are referring to the quotidien effort of going through the motions, making money and paying bills in order to insure physical existence. But successfully treading water in the pond of life isn't what makes life real, and it certainly isn't what makes jobs real.

What makes for reality is a question that most people are not even asking, but it is one that universities try to answer.

JL

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Dr. Lares, You are better for me than my word-a-day calendar. I have just added "quotidien" to my vocabulary.

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

CHT:

Right now, I kind of miss my earlier days when I had a "real job." That is, a 9 to 5 blue collar gig in which I left the job behind when I punched the clock and opened a brew. Now I have to deal with 60 hour weeks (on an easy week), worry about generating enough income to support students and the educational and development needs of my folks, spending endless hours pushing paper when my time could be better spent producing research or cash, attending poorly planned and pointless meetings, having budgets slashed and burned, and having "bosses" who are lacking in management skills to the point that the "company" is constantly on shaky ground. Maybe the blue collar Joe or Jane pushing a broom for a living can't relate to what I do now, but follow me around for a week and you'll see that the average road warrior middle manager in corporate or government America (like my sister) will be able to identify with what I do for a living.

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Amen, Mitch. Your description sounds like several "real" jobs I've had.
I've worked in and out of academia for nearly forty years, and have discovered that work is work is work. When I taught a couple of sections last year I thought "whoo-hoo! All that freedom! All that time!" HA! The grading ate my life.

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Learning in Retirement wrote:

Dr. Lares, You are better for me than my word-a-day calendar. I have just added "quotidien" to my vocabulary.

Shouldn't that word be "quotidian"? Maybe Dr. Lares is using Stephen Judd's key board.

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Nit Picker wrote:

Shouldn't that word be "quotidian"? Maybe Dr. Lares is using Stephen Judd's key board.

Guilty as charged, but it's not the keyboard. I was thinking of the French spelling, as in the Lord's Prayer: "Donne-nous aujourd'hui notre pain quotidien."

I used to be pretty good at orthography, but then I took French. Zut, alors!

JL

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Mitch wrote:

Right now, I kind of miss my earlier days when I had a "real job." That is, a 9 to 5 blue collar gig in which I left the job behind when I punched the clock and opened a brew.

That was when you were in the dean's office?

Date: Oct 15, 2005

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

Cold Hard Truth--

If you are right, then why do so many of us out here in "the real world" struggle so that our children can attend those institutions that "are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a joke. . ."? Why do some families still celebrate the first generation that is able to go on to college? Why do business leaders who have enjoyed great financial success in "the real world" then endow scholarships so that subsequent generations have to opportunity to get a higher education?

If "the real world" did not recognize the value of higher education, wouldn't market forces (at least here in the market-driven west) develop and fund an alternative more in line with "real world" values? There is certainly a place in the real world for trade schools and vocational training, but our society seems to continue to support the notion that colleges and universities provide the best shot at a better life for most people.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

What about the folks who work at USM who have what you'd define as "real jobs" (e.g., maintenance, secretarial, clerical, etc.)? Are they divorced from the "real world?"

I'm truly sorry that so many people dislike their "real world" jobs & feel compelled to bash members of other professions for theirs. I put in a lot of time so I wouldn't have to operate a back-hoe for a living. (Not bashing back-hoe operators, understand?) But if you choose to be a back-hoe operator, you should be satisfied with that decision & not begrudge someone else's occupation, because they were smarter or studied harder or when to school longer & don't have to get all dirty on the job.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

I must make a mental note to have the elves in the BOGUS IT department write a program to automagically generate 21 million diplomas by tomorrow. Our BOGUS trustees find it unacceptable that Bandersnatch is claiming to have issued more diplomas. We also note that Bandersnatch sticks to traditional departments & is nowhere nearly as innovative as BOGUS. I mean, where's their MFA in Whorehouse Piano Playing, huh?

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Then please issue one to yourself as Esteemed Board Statesman because in this role you have indeed been on a roll with your last couple of eloquent posts!

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Cold Hard Truth wrote:

This is the view that much of the public holds of higher education right now. Colleges and universities are so divorced from the real world that they are seen as a big joke by most people with real jobs.

Well, maybe this is the view that much of Mississippi holds right now. But Mississippi is not the entire public.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Invictus wrote:

I'm truly sorry that so many people dislike their "real world" jobs & feel compelled to bash members of other professions for theirs. I put in a lot of time so I wouldn't have to operate a back-hoe for a living. (Not bashing back-hoe operators, understand?) But if you choose to be a back-hoe operator, you should be satisfied with that decision & not begrudge someone else's occupation, because they were smarter or studied harder or when to school longer & don't have to get all dirty on the job.

Invictus,

Perhaps it is time that we become a bit more direct in dealing people in the "real world" who disparage us for sport. I particularly like your post. You are saying what needs to be said.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Mr. Wizard wrote:

Perhaps it is time that we become a bit more direct in dealing people in the "real world" who disparage us for sport. I particularly like your post. You are saying what needs to be said.

Thank you, sir. Here's a little bit of Dylan that kind of sums up how I feel about those "real worlders" who're so bitter about the choices they made...

<RELEVANT BOBSTER QUOTE>
No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I'd rob them

And now I know you're dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don't you understand
It's not my problem
</RELEVANT BOBSTER QUOTE>

Date: Oct 16, 2005

I think I've shared this before, but here's the perfect real-life example. My ex always has something negative to say about "liberal arts types" to the effect that we're dense, no judgment, etc. At the same time he's doing all in his power to help his own child get a degree in . . . history.

Date: Oct 16, 2005

Mitch wrote:

CHT: Right now, I kind of miss my earlier days when I had a "real job." That is, a 9 to 5 blue collar gig in which I left the job behind when I punched the clock and opened a brew.

Having escaped "Prison Camp Shelby" for the "real world," I think that the Mississippi view of the university is really unfocused. Here, the work force is divided into "exempt" and "non-exempt" employees, and for "non-exempt" employees, anything over 40 hours calls for overtime pay. Those are the "honest day's pay for an honest day's work" people that Shelboo keeps referring to, and they get annual cost-of-living raises of 3-4 percent. On the other hand, "exempt" employees are hired for their technical skills, aren't eligible for overtime, but they ARE paid "market scale" because of their background and training.

If you want to run a factory, you hire "non-exempt" employees and give them simple annual "objectives and expectations" against which to assess their performance. Then again, that's NOT what you expect from a university, where you can't restrict your "input" --

Date: Oct 17, 2005

A college education is preceived poorly in our state because in "real world" Mississippi very few people hold jobs that require much education.

The extreme backwardness of the state's economy, where wages are the lowest in the nation, means that most people don't realize the full economic value of a college degree. If they leave the state to pursue careers in Houston, Atlanta, or up north, they will do much better, but then they are no longer part of the political culture of the state.

In other places with more sophisticated employment and opportunity structures and where there exists a sizable middle class, voters strongly support higher education. They understand that it is essential for the economic future of their children. North Carolina, for example, passed a three billion dollar bond package about four years ago that is transforming the state's well-regareded system of higher ed. California, for all its budget troubles, is still opening new campuses in the UC system.

For better or for worse, top colleges act as gate keepers for opportuntiies in business, the professions, and leading graduate schools. The drag of poor education and poverty means that few Misssissippians can ever hope to compete on that level. Those that can compete with the top students typically leave Mississippi to pursue careers where they will win incomes comensurate with their training and skills.

One can see how Mississippi voters make a rational judgement not to tax themselves to subsidize the out-migration of the ambitious and talented.

This is how economic underdevelopment reinforces itself, and why it is so diffucult to pull a place like Mississippi up.

Date: Oct 17, 2005

Negative feedback loop wrote:

why it is so diffucult to pull a place like Mississippi up.

Things may be horribly deplorable at Southern Miss but the state itself is not deplorable. Everything is not well in Mississippi or in any other state, but on balance few states offer the quality of life afforded here. It's all a matter of priorities:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051016/OPINION/510160315/1200