Pro-Rem - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Pro-Rem

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Storm Watcher wrote:

President Bush is considering a program which will be called "Pro-Rem" to reimburse professionals ( physicians,accountants,teachers,lawyers,etc.) 75% of their lost income from the hurricanes.

How about Joe Bloke? No reimbursement for him? Why reimburse only the highly educated or the affluent? There are some hard working middle class laborers who live from paycheck to paycheck. Hourly wage employees need more than do physicians and lawyers. You made this up, didn't you?

Date: Sep 28, 2005

In the past this board has played the political game of "class warfare", not saying that is what is happening here, but it's been played before.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Political View wrote:

In the past this board has played the political game of "class warfare", not saying that is what is happening here, but it's been played before.

Just what do you call it when 75% of lost income is provided to the more educated and affluent but not made available to the uneducated middle class?

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Political View wrote:

In the past this board has played the political game of "class warfare", not saying that is what is happening here, but it's been played before.

Providing 75% of income lost because of the hurricane to professionals but not to the middle class isn't my idea of fighting a "war against poverty." It's more like waging a war on the middle class.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Am I the only person on here who dosen't expect the government to take care of me?

Sorry, I am self employed, and I have chosen to take care of myself. Sure would be a breath of fresh air if everyone else decided to do the same.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Kudzu King wrote:

Am I the only person on here who dosen't expect the government to take care of me? Sorry, I am self employed, and I have chosen to take care of myself. Sure would be a breath of fresh air if everyone else decided to do the same.

I don't see anybody on this thread expecting anybody to take care of anybody. The comments pertain to Storm Watcher's statement about Mr. Bush's alleged plan to take care of physicians, accountants, lawyers, and other professionals whose income suffered because of the hurricanes.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

See, KK, here's the deal. It's fine and good that you are in business for yourself, in fact I applaud you. But, tell me, how did you do this? Did you just wake up one day and decide to go into business for yourself? No, you probably first had to have a college degree (made possible by your parents? student loans from the government? scholarships?). Then, you probably had to have start-up money for your business, right? Where did that come from? Mom and Dad? A bank (with collateral)? Saved it up the old-fashioned way?

There is a middle-class safety net that is practically invisible if you are of that class. So many things you take for granted that people who are not middle class don't have. Again, it's great that you were able to do what you've done, but understand that the playing field is not level in so many imperceptible ways.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

I must have been absent the day this "plan" was announced. This is the first mention of it I've heard. Can anyone point us to a source for this information? It seems dubious to me.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Johnny Fairplay wrote:

See, KK, here's the deal. It's fine and good that you are in business for yourself, in fact I applaud you. But, tell me, how did you do this? Did you just wake up one day and decide to go into business for yourself? No, you probably first had to have a college degree (made possible by your parents? student loans from the government? scholarships?). Then, you probably had to have start-up money for your business, right? Where did that come from? Mom and Dad? A bank (with collateral)? Saved it up the old-fashioned way?

There is a middle-class safety net that is practically invisible if you are of that class. So many things you take for granted that people who are not middle class don't have. Again, it's great that you were able to do what you've done, but understand that the playing field is not level in so many imperceptible ways.

Since you asked. I grew up on a dirt poor patch of ground just south of Hattiesburg, the son of a cotton and soybean farmer. There were no government subsidies in that day and age. I worked the fields as did my two brothers and three sisters. I didn't have the luxury of having my college paid for. How my father kept everyone fed is still an amazement to me. As for going to college. I worked a quarter, then went back to school a quarter. Driving a dump truck for a little of nothing. Running a bush hog for the state hwy department, whatever it took.

I did manage to get my degree, seven years after starting college. At that time I went to work for a construction company and worked, and scrimped and saved. Then I started out on my own, with money I earned and worked for.

I am not in favor of anyone getting a free ride, that's what has made America soft. Free rides and no responsibility.

Date: Sep 28, 2005

Johnny Fairplay wrote:

See, KK, here's the deal. It's fine and good that you are in business for yourself, in fact I applaud you. But, tell me, how did you do this? Did you just wake up one day and decide to go into business for yourself? No, you probably first had to have a college degree (made possible by your parents? student loans from the government? scholarships?). Then, you probably had to have start-up money for your business, right? Where did that come from? Mom and Dad? A bank (with collateral)? Saved it up the old-fashioned way?

There is a middle-class safety net that is practically invisible if you are of that class. So many things you take for granted that people who are not middle class don't have. Again, it's great that you were able to do what you've done, but understand that the playing field is not level in so many imperceptible ways.

I'm not KK, but let me make a few other points.

1. It's easier for poor students to get a college education than for middle-class students, because poor students qualify for a boatload of aid that middle-class students don't qualify for. Take Pell Grants for instance. On the USM campus, there is a special program (Student Support Services) that provides support for minorities and first-generation students with financial need ONLY. A third-generation minority student qualifies, while a first-generation middle-class white does not. Also, student loans are based on income, so that poor students qualify for more loans. Finally, there are numerous scholarships that are based on financial need. Save me the financial arguments, JF, because you obviously are ignoring the plethora of programs that provide for "underprivileged" students WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK HARD.

2. If there's class warfare on this board, it is often stoked by those who wish to paint the black student as in an unfair position. I teach at USM, and I will say that many of our students work a part- or full-time job. However, the PERCENTAGE of white students who work is higher than the PERCENTAGE of black students who work. More work means less time for study, which automatically puts those students at a disadvantage.

3. There are many who visit this board who must think that every white person gets a college degree handed to them these days, while black people have to chase rabbits down holes to get a number to stand in line to buy a lottery ticket to win a college degree. The opportunities are there for everyone who decides that a degree is important. First, you don't have to take the "biased" standardized tests to get into USM; you can go from high school to a JUCO to USM and never have taken the ACT or SAT. That's a fact. It's also a fact that once accepted to USM, financial need plays a large part in getting financial aid of all types (see #1 above). If you're willing to live in a dorm, eat at the Commons, buy used textbooks, and live on some type of budget, you can probably get enough grant/scholarship/loan money to get your degree and make a better life for yourself.

Maybe that's asking too much, but then again I put myself through a bachelor's program, a master's program, and a doctoral program without my parents ever paying for tuition, books, fees, etc., and I didn't qualify for a Pell Grant. I've still got student loans that I pay each month, but that's the price I have to pay for being middle-class and white.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Johnny Fairplay wrote:

See, KK, here's the deal. It's fine and good that you are in business for yourself, in fact I applaud you. But, tell me, how did you do this? Did you just wake up one day and decide to go into business for yourself? No, you probably first had to have a college degree (made possible by your parents? student loans from the government? scholarships?). Then, you probably had to have start-up money for your business, right? Where did that come from? Mom and Dad? A bank (with collateral)? Saved it up the old-fashioned way?

There is a middle-class safety net that is practically invisible if you are of that class. So many things you take for granted that people who are not middle class don't have. Again, it's great that you were able to do what you've done, but understand that the playing field is not level in so many imperceptible ways.

I think any reasonable,objective person would agree there are more government programs and preferences for blacks than for whites. There is a National Merit scholarship program limited to minorities for instance. We can all think of many other examples.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

This sounds like a bunch of grandstanding by El Presidenté to me. Did a lot of school districts around here dock teachers' pay during the time they were out of work? I don't think so. In fact, a lot of districts were doing backflips to get those paychecks out on time.

And I truly don't know if a lot of physicians were out of work either. In fact, a bunch of them were doing extra hours. As for lawyers, well, they'll figure out how to get their 75% checks, I'm sure, even though they also seem to be enjoying a bit of "windfall profit," what with all the insurance companies that need to be sued.

Faculty at institutions such as Tulane, Xavier, Loyola, or UNO may have long-term needs & I hope it's those folks that Dubya has in mind.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Interesting how I never mentioned race in my post, only class, yet race was immediately conflated with class in the responses to my post. I think that's a telling observation...(Americans would always rather talk about race rather than class).

Quick responses: KK, good for you for scrimping and saving to start your business. In a survival of the fittest kind of world, you have proved that you are fit and will survive. I applaud you.

ST: My point had nothing to do with race and everything to do with class. People are most likely to have goals that are consistent with the community within which they were raised (I know that we like to promulgate the "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" theory in America, but this is the exception rather than the rule--p.s. ever heard of corporate welfare? Another topic for another post). Therefore, if you are raised by people who value a college education and probably have one themselves, then you will also value that and they will probably try to help you get it. Beyond that, though, there are ways to position yourself to even get a scholarship (through taking the right classes, taking prep courses for standardized tests, etc.) that not everyone is aware of or able to take advantage of. That is my point...I know that there are exceptions to the rule, but folks who have more money and more experience with higher education are more likely to have kids who value this.

There are plenty examples of people like KK who are exceptions to the rule, but the rule still exists. That was my only point...it's not so much that there aren't opportunities available to working-class and folks below the poverty line--there obviously are. Yet, there are things that you might take for granted if you are in the middle-class that those other folks don't always have on their side (such as extra money for tutors, prep courses, a culture that values a degree, etc. etc.).

Get my point?

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Johnny Fairplay wrote:

Interesting how I never mentioned race in my post, only class, yet race was immediately conflated with class in the responses to my post. I think that's a telling observation...(Americans would always rather talk about race rather than class).

Quick responses: KK, good for you for scrimping and saving to start your business. In a survival of the fittest kind of world, you have proved that you are fit and will survive. I applaud you.

ST: My point had nothing to do with race and everything to do with class. People are most likely to have goals that are consistent with the community within which they were raised (I know that we like to promulgate the "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" theory in America, but this is the exception rather than the rule--p.s. ever heard of corporate welfare? Another topic for another post). Therefore, if you are raised by people who value a college education and probably have one themselves, then you will also value that and they will probably try to help you get it. Beyond that, though, there are ways to position yourself to even get a scholarship (through taking the right classes, taking prep courses for standardized tests, etc.) that not everyone is aware of or able to take advantage of. That is my point...I know that there are exceptions to the rule, but folks who have more money and more experience with higher education are more likely to have kids who value this.

There are plenty examples of people like KK who are exceptions to the rule, but the rule still exists. That was my only point...it's not so much that there aren't opportunities available to working-class and folks below the poverty line--there obviously are. Yet, there are things that you might take for granted if you are in the middle-class that those other folks don't always have on their side (such as extra money for tutors, prep courses, a culture that values a degree, etc. etc.).

Get my point?

I hear your point. Your point is simply a restatement of a socialist view, a system which has been proven inadequate several times over.

So you expect me to believe that in 2005 there Mississippians and other Americans so far removed from the popular culture that they have no idea that a college degree is a requisite for success in the world?

Let's remove all personal responsibility from the educational system and enact laws to make sure that more lower- and middle-class Americans get college degrees. Let's go a step further and bar upper-class Americans from getting college degrees so that we can "even out the playing field."

TV, movies, etc., extole the virtues of a college degree, and yet people like Johnny Fairplay still cry out for the underprivileged.

Eventually, someone in a family has to make up his or her mind that education is important. Once that is done, the rest falls into place. The problem with your argument, JF, is that those without education have little or no use for education, which is why the public as a whole is anti-intellectual.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Sensitivity Trainer wrote:
So you expect me to believe that in 2005 there Mississippians and other Americans so far removed from the popular culture that they have no idea that a college degree is a requisite for success in the world? . . . . . people like Johnny Fairplay still cry out for the underprivileged. Eventually, someone in a family has to make up his or her mind that education is important. Once that is done, the rest falls into place. The problem with your argument, JF, is that those without education have little or no use for education, which is why the public as a whole is anti-intellectual.

Yes, Sensitivity Trainee, there are many pompous, arrogant, educated fools out there - some in closer proximity to us that others.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Why are we still assuming the original post is even true? No one has come forward with any corroboration.

Date: Sep 29, 2005

LVN wrote:

Why are we still assuming the original post is even true?

Why? The process of elimination, my dear. Who else would make such a proposal?

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Sensitivity Trainer wrote:

So you expect me to believe that in 2005 there Mississippians and other Americans so far removed from the popular culture that they have no idea that a college degree is a requisite for success in the world?

They probably know that having a college degree helps you have success in the world, but many have no encouragement and/or support to go through the process of getting one. That's just one more roadblock in their path--that's all I'm saying.

Let's remove all personal responsibility from the educational system and enact laws to make sure that more lower- and middle-class Americans get college degrees. Let's go a step further and bar upper-class Americans from getting college degrees so that we can "even out the playing field."

What a silly statement above...not what I'm saying at all.

TV, movies, etc., extole the virtues of a college degree, and yet people like Johnny Fairplay still cry out for the underprivileged.

What would you rather do for the underprivileged--round them up in a corral and shoot them?

Eventually, someone in a family has to make up his or her mind that education is important. Once that is done, the rest falls into place. The problem with your argument, JF, is that those without education have little or no use for education, which is why the public as a whole is anti-intellectual.

"The rest falls into place"--that one phrase covers a whole lot of ground, doesn't it, ST? I know that my path to a college education didn't just "fall into place" and I had the benefit of at least some support from family, friends, and the like. It's doubly hard for those who don't have that support--that's all I'm saying.

As for the public being anti-intellectual, I fail to see how my argument is the cause of that state of our union. Blame it on the poor people? Hardly. Don't think they have that much clout, now do they?

Date: Sep 29, 2005

Can you corroborate that such a proposal was even made?

Date: Sep 30, 2005

Kudzu King wrote:

I worked a quarter, then went back to school a quarter. Driving a dump truck for a little of nothing. Running a bush hog for the state hwy department, whatever it took.

At that time I went to work for a construction company and worked, and scrimped and saved. Then I started out on my own, with money I earned and worked for.

Welcome to the BBS, Mr. Warren -- we were wondering when you'd reveal your "secret identity."