This is excellent news; congrats to anyone who is responsible for it.

Question: if most athletic supporters (sorry about the pun) were told that they could choose between high graduation rates for the players or more games won, which would they choose?

USM Sympathizer wrote:

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This is excellent news; congrats to anyone who is responsible for it.
Question: if most athletic supporters (sorry about the pun) were told that they could choose between high graduation rates for the players or more games won, which would they choose?

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I think you'd be surprised at what a lot of USM sports fans would say if you asked them one-on-one. USM's graduation rate for athletes is something our fans are very proud of.

Yes, there are those who will bring up the "rampant grade inflation" issue. I won't argue that. But I'll offer that athletes at a lot of "name" schools enjoy a remarkable level of grade inflation & are no more likely to be majoring in nuclear physics than their counterparts at USM. Point-for-point, USM's athletes work as hard -- or harder -- than their counterparts at any other university. Remember, graduation isn't all about GPA. It's about persistence (including encouragement from coaches & faculty) & it's about setting goals & working toward them.

Let's not take anything away from the kids, OK?

So, I agree with USM Sympathizer: this is excellent news & my hat's off to those who are responsible -- coaches, counselors, teachers who go the extra mile for kids who do miss a lot of time on "school bidness" & of course, the players themselves.

Invictus wrote:

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I think you'd be surprised at what a lot of USM sports fans would say if you asked them one-on-one. USM's graduation rate for athletes is something our fans are very proud of.

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Invictus,

If this is true (and I greatly trust your opinion), then USM really does have something to be proud of here.  I live in a state where the only thing that matters to most "athletic supporters" is winning at any cost.  Unfortunately, there are all too many states like mine.

And most important of all, it's a victory for these students to leave with a degree. It's especially important for those who are the first in their family to attend college. It's supposed to be about education, after all.

USM Sympathizer wrote:

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 I live in a state where the only thing that matters to most "athletic supporters" is winning at any cost. 

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Oh, you must live in Texas.

Mr. Wizard wrote:

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But something is amiss here.

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Actually, I'm not sure there is. Ever heard of "stacking the deck?"

Some years ago, I was chatting with Jeff Bower (with whom I have a relationship that is not & has never been predicated on USM athletics). Basically, he said that he didn't have a large enough budget to "take chances." Whenever possible, he's going for "student-athletes" who have a pretty good chance of remaining academically eligible. Larger schools can gamble a bit -- they'll bring in marginal players & farm them out to jucos if their grades go south.

Bower -- and other coaches -- also have a short list of players who were able to earn master's degrees on their NCAA eligibility (by going to summer school, the kids graduate on schedule, but by being red-shirted, they have 5 years' playing eligibility). And you can believe that he & other coaches will point this out to players & parents: If you red-shirt, go summers, take the max load & pass your classes, you will have at least one year on your master's paid by your athletic scholarship.

The coaches don't have money to burn on recruits who are academically marginal. (I'm not sure I've said this clearly, so please read between the lines.)

In a sense, this is a case where USM's relatively small athletic budget actually works in its favor. Whenever you hear those ESPN guys going on about how competitive USM's teams are in spite of their budget, think about this.

USM's athletic programs -- football & most of the "minor sports" at least -- are on the up-and-up.

In spite of what Shelby would like to see.

Mr. Wizard wrote:

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You know, this is too good to be true. I mean really, this is too good to be true. If only 25 division I-A institutions have a graduation rate of 70 percent or more for their football players, I find it nearly impossible to believe that 85 percent of our football players legitimately earned a degree. I'm not suggesting that they did not graduate, and believe me, I don't mean this as a knock on our football players. But something is amiss here.

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A year or so ago thee graduation rates for our athletics were announced to the Faculty Senate.  USM had the best graduation rate in C-USA except for Tulane.  We had the best rate than all schools in the SEC except Vanderbilt.  A senator remarked that since Tulane and Vanderbilt are private institution of very high quality, this data might be evidence that USM has the worse grade inflation problem than all the schools in C-USA and the SEC.  The meeting became quiet at that point. 

 

LVN wrote:

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I don't doubt that our good graduation rate is honestly earned. I had several athletes in class this past fall. One football player, baseball players, a tennis player all were fine academically, one basketball player was marginal but dropped out due to injury. One other football player was a capable student who just wasn't ready for ENG 101 due to lack of preparation in high school. I persuaded that student to drop, take ENG 099 and come back later for 101. Taken as a group, they were as competent as the other students.

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A sample size of two is mighty small, and even here it appears that only half of your football players made it through a 101 level class. And how does the description "capable" apply to a student who had to go back and take ENG 099? And if, taken as a group, the football players "were as competent as the other students" can you explain their vastly superior graduation rate?

Mr. Wizard wrote:

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And if, taken as a group, the football players "were as competent as the other students" can you explain their vastly superior graduation rate?

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Because most other students don't have the kind of support system (counselors, tutors, mandatory study halls, etc.) that the athletes have. Most other students don't have authority figures (coaches) monitoring their attendance, grades, etc. & most other students don't have to run "stadiums" if they cut class.

USM Sympathizer wrote:

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This is excellent news; congrats to anyone who is responsible for it.
Question: if most athletic supporters (sorry about the pun) were told that they could choose between high graduation rates for the players or more games won, which would they choose?

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I'll tell you what I think on the issue. The athletes at USM are students first and athletes second. Jeff Bower has done an outstanding job of recruiting players that have solid work eithic on the field and in the class room. I was in the college of business with several football players, Jeff Kelly, Richie Davidson, Kelby Nance and others. These guys were good students, and worked in many respects harder than some of the rest of us.

I know the disdane that many on this board have for Thames and in some aspects the University as a whole, but please don't try to take away from the accomplishments of young people who work hard and are rewarded for their work.

I agree, Jeff Bower is coach to be highly respected with regard to his emphasis on academics. He has earned the respect of many faculty on this campus because of his push for academics and for morals and standards of behavior, at a time when it might appear that the NCAA is "going to hell in a handbasket"....."win at all costs" type of mentality. Jeff has obviously done wonders with "what he's got"...in terms of a limited athletic budget compared to MANY of our competitors in and out of the conference. Personally, I'd like to see a little less conservatism in the game plan, primarily from the offense, but on the whole, I think Jeff has been great for USM football. We need to move to the next level, such that we would beat the Alabama's and Tennessee's more than just once every few years, but I'm afraid that's way down the road as long as our athletic budget is what it is, and as long as we compete with at least 2 other major state universities for players, AND compete with Alabama and LSU next door.

And, as a faculty member here for 19 years, I'm also aware of the issue of grade inflation. However, I believe that those of us on this board who keep injecting "yeah, but what about the grade inflation" comments do a disservice to the athletes. After all, all they can do is go to class, do their best, and get their grades. If there's rampant grade inflation, it affects all students, not just the athletes. And, if there is grade inflation (and there's been some good data to suggest that there is [thanks, Frank Glamser], then it is we faculty who can change that, not the students.

I'm not a blind, rah, rah, athletics kind of guy......in fact, I'm still p**ssed at what happened to Flemming from the Jock Straps, errrr, athletic supporters. But at the same time, if athletes are graduating from USM at 85%, given the current guidelines, we should NOT tear them down by saying, "yeah, but look at the grade inflation"...............assuming there's grade inflation at all major state institutions, we're still out-performing most of them!!!!

Edward

 

to provide some perspective. 34.5% of male students at USM who began in 1998 graduated in 5 years; 41.3% of male students at USM who began in 1998 graduated in 6 years.

stinky cheese man wrote:

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to provide some perspective. 34.5% of male students at USM who began in 1998 graduated in 5 years; 41.3% of male students at USM who began in 1998 graduated in 6 years.

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USM's male student graduation rate  of 34.5% and 41.33% when compared with the reported 85% graduation rate of our football players is easy to understand. It's because the athletes are brighter (e.g., higher ACT scores) and more motivated (e.g., spend more time in the library) than our overall student body. That's why we call them "student athletes."

Seeker wrote:

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I just love how this board tries to tear down everything positive at USM. Now, I am not generalizing everyone into this statement. But, there are a large number on this board that cannot and willnot be happy with anything positive that happens at USM. Those are the individuals who need to catch the first Greyhound out of town.

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Seeker, here I say something positive and you still grouch.