Replacing USM Administration - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jul 7, 2005

Replacing USM Administration

Date: Jul 7, 2005

Hattiesburg Headhunter wrote:

My estimation is that USM will have to replace all administration down to and including the dean level if it wants to recover from this madness. Is there anyone at those levels that experienced faculty think should stay in their present positions?

HH, I was thinking this same thing yesterday. I think the cuts have to go down to the Dean level also (all included). I think a clean brreak through the Dean level is a must.

Date: Jul 7, 2005

Actually, it is more basic. It is the IHL board. They have worked against us since that new crop came in under Musgrove. Again, I tell you Fleming warned some privately what was going on, and all the actions of the IHL with the unwitting cooperation of the BIDness community--mainly the used car dealers in Hattiesburg and McComb--got us where we are. You have to understand this one point: The IHL does not want USM to prosper. Nothing at USM will change until the IHL changes.

Date: Jul 7, 2005

- - - as donald says, firing administrators would be treating a cold when the patient has cancer. Start with Klumb et. al. and then work downwards.

Date: Jul 7, 2005

I think the business and professional community is solidly against the faculty.If you want a position where faculty members are respected,you'd better go to another university.Local merchants carry a strong dislike for USM faculty.

Date: Jul 7, 2005

Another Place wrote:

I think the business and professional community is solidly against the faculty . . . . Local merchants carry a strong dislike for USM faculty.

I think it is the university itself that the business and professional community does not respect. The faculty is part of that university, and the disrespect for the organization spills over to the salespersons. It's like a customer getting defective product from a department store. Although management makes the decision about what products are sold and how they are delivered, the customer vents his wrath on the hapless salespersons or delivery persons from which he purchased and received the goods. Following this theory to its logical conclusion, new faculty will get the same disrespect as the departed ones.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Another Place wrote:

I think the business and professional community is solidly against the faculty.If you want a position where faculty members are respected,you'd better go to another university.Local merchants carry a strong dislike for USM faculty.

I respectfully disagree. I know many business and professional leaders in Hattiesburg, having served on the board of a local non-profit agency (and as its Program Director) and a committee of Pine Grove/FGH, and I can tell you that there are many among these folk who have high regard for the faculty and little to no regard for Shelby.

Admittedly, there are some very vocal opponents of the faculty among the business and professional community, but let's not confuse vocal with solid. Shelby has divided the community. The only thing he seems to have solidified is the faculty (read 90% vote of no-confidence). Even among those who are vocal opponents of the faculty, they are not truly opposed to the faculty. Rather, they are scapegoating "the faculty" as a faceless group to shore up town support for the hand that is feeding them. Many of those would say privately, I suspect, "Some of my best friends are faculty." It's easy to demonize a group, and this can work both ways. Knowing who your friends are can be important.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

I'm telling you from the heart of Hattiesburg, the citizens here wish the faculty to depart to your so-called greener pastures. Can the city hold a referendum to accomplish this? A no confidence vote in the university faculty? Y'all suck.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Towner Who Hates Gowners wrote:

I'm telling you from the heart of Hattiesburg, the citizens here wish the faculty to depart to your so-called greener pastures.

Any replacement faculty you get would have the same academic values as those who moved to greener pastures. What you want is tantamount to demanding that Delta Airlines employ prehensile apes to fly their aircraft.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Towner Who Hates Gowners wrote:

I'm telling you from the heart of Hattiesburg, the citizens here wish the faculty to depart to your so-called greener pastures. Can the city hold a referendum to accomplish this? A no confidence vote in the university faculty? Y'all suck.

The trolls are out this morning. Don't feed the trolls.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Here's what i think is funny, this "troll alert." A bunch of PhDs can't obviously think for themselves and need a cyber sentry to monitor conent and direct people not to respond. Call me a troll, but at least I'm not a professor at the worst school in the nation!

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Towner Who hates Gowners wrote:

Here's what i think is funny, this "troll alert." A bunch of PhDs can't obviously think for themselves and need a cyber sentry to monitor conent and direct people not to respond. Call me a troll, but at least I'm not a professor at the worst school in the nation!

I think USM is a pretty good school and I think most of the faculty are a swell bunch,but I think you've got a point. The profs pour out the outrage and the satire at Thames ( and he deserves most of it) ,but let someone pull their chain and they yell,"troll alert,troll alert." They sort of remind you of Al Gore.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Troll Alert for Dummies wrote:

I think USM is a pretty good school and I think most of the faculty are a swell bunch,but I think you've got a point. The profs pour out the outrage and the satire at Thames ( and he deserves most of it) ,but let someone pull their chain and they yell,"troll alert,troll alert." They sort of remind you of Al Gore.

There are many superb professors at USM, among them pillars of the community. However, I agree with your Al Gore analogy. Some of them even channel Howard Dean and Al Sharpton. Just don't make the mistake of assuming that this open message board speaks for "the faculty." When you read an extreme post, it's more than likely the work of an extremist who may not even be a member of the faculty. Heck, every group has its extremists. Just look at Shelby Thames.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

POSTED BY: Towner Who hates Gowners

"Here's what i think is funny, this "troll alert." A bunch of PhDs can't obviously think for themselves and need a cyber sentry to monitor conent and direct people not to respond. Call me a troll, but at least I'm not a professor at the worst school in the nation! "

I pay as much attention to troll alert messages as I do to the message posted by "trolls". I read what is interesting or amusing. A professor at USM is not working at the worst school in the nation. A USM professor is working at a university that has slipped in quality very rapidly over the past three years. Even so, USM has a far piece to go to get to the bottom. SFT has a lot of work to do and a short time to do it. Even as talented as he is, I do not think he can take USM to the worst in the nation in two more years. That said, he can continue to wreak havoc and push us further down the scale.

From your handle, I cannot tell if you wish to see additional destruction of USM so that some faculty will be harmed, or you just want to feel good about yourself by feeling superior to faculty. Whatever the case, the decline in quality at USM does not help the Hattiesburg community, the students of USM, or the state of Mississippi. It is not even good for the reputation of Ole Miss and Mississippi State since people outside of the state tend to think much of what happens to USM has happened to State or Ole Miss.

My response to your post has been to take you seriously. The rest of the Board will be able to tell from your response, or lack of response, if you truly are a troll. I will give you a hint; a personal attack on me as a poster will give you away.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Cossack wrote:

USM has a far piece to go to get to the bottom.

I do hope you are right, Cossack, but when you consider the fact that only 16 of the 248 schools ranked by USNews had a lower peer rating than USM, there are only 16 more rungs on the ladder.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Paint Bucket wrote:

I do hope you are right, Cossack, but when you consider the fact that only 16 of the 248 schools ranked by USNews had a lower peer rating than USM, there are only 16 more rungs on the ladder.

PB,

Wow! I'd never seen this figure before; thanks for calling it to our attention. It needs to be more widely publicized. Sixteenth from the bottom is NOT good.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Paint Bucket wrote:

.... only 16 of the 248 schools ranked by USNews had a lower peer rating than USM...

That's awful. When was the data collected? I'd think this would merit front page coverage by the HA. Can you tell us where Ole Miss, MSU, and Jackson State were ranked?

AE

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Austin Eagle wrote:

That's awful. When was the data collected? I'd think this would merit front page coverage by the HA. Can you tell us where Ole Miss, MSU, and Jackson State were ranked? AE

AE: I am sorry to be the one to bring you the bad news, but it has been common knowledge on the message board for many months. You should be able to find answers to your questions on page one of this thread: Fourth Tier Question (

1 2 ) (Scroll down to the first post by "Primary Source." read that and the subsequent posts).

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Information from USNews&WR 2005 rankings:

Primary Source

Date: 1 day ago
Views: 298

Quote | Reply RE: Fourth Tier Question

Robert Campbell wrote:

Primary Source, Thank you for laying out the components of the US News ratings. The lowest possible peer assessment (academic reputation) score is 1.0. I believe USM's peer assessment score was 2.2 the year before the tierdrop, and 2.1 last year. There is still a long way for the peer assessment score to fall, and every reason to believe that it will fall further as word about the SFT regime gets around to other universities.

And thank you, Robert, for the additional data that you provided (and thanks to stinky cheese man for posting additional details. To your comments I would like to add this:

Although 1.0 is the lowest possible peer rating, as a practical matter the lowest actual rating given in the rankings was 1.7 (Alabama A&M). Only 16 of the 248 schools ranked had a lower peer rating than USM. Most of the old board viewers are already award of those facts, but newcomers might also be interested (and shocked as was I).

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Googler

Date: 1 day ago
Views: 224

Quote | Reply RE: Fourth Tier Question

Primary Source wrote:

USM Sympathizer wrote: Is there a (free) web link that lays out the information you've been sharing, or are you looking in the printed rankings? Thanks again! The data come from the 2005 edition of "America's Best Colleges." I am looking at the printed rankings. I've not look to see if if these data are available on line. Maybe Googler can determine that.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_2441 _brief.php

It appears these data are available via "premium online content."

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Austin Eagle wrote:

Paint Bucket wrote: .... only 16 of the 248 schools ranked by USNews had a lower peer rating than USM... That's awful. When was the data collected? I'd think this would merit front page coverage by the HA. Can you tell us where Ole Miss, MSU, and Jackson State were ranked? AE

Ole Miss' peer assessment score is toward the top of the 52 schools in tier three. Only 7 schools in tier three have a peer score above the 2.8 of Ole Miss. State is toward the bottom of tier three with a peer rating of 2.4. Jackson State is in tier four with only 3 schools having a peer score below JSU's 1.9. USM's peer score is 2.2. The tiers are listed in alphabetical order so it is not legitimate to base a ranking on just one dimension like the peer assessment score, but it does give you an idea how a school is viewed by top administrators.

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Please don't blame the messanger wrote:

Austin Eagle wrote: That's awful. When was the data collected? I'd think this would merit front page coverage by the HA. Can you tell us where Ole Miss, MSU, and Jackson State were ranked? AE

AE: I am sorry to be the one to bring you the bad news, but it has been common knowledge on the message board for many months. You should be able to find answers to your questions on page one of this thread: Fourth Tier Question ( 1 2 ) (Scroll down to the first post by "Primary Source." read that and the subsequent posts).

Give me a little credit here. I would never blame (or shoot) the messenger. I'm well aware that USM dropped from 3rd to 4th tier in last year's USNWR rankings, and I know that the sole reason for the drop was Tim Hudson. I have read the thread you suggested. I know how the data is collected. I'm asking if the information cited, placing USM near the bottom in peer rankings, is last year's info or a preview of the new USNWR rankings. I'm also trying to find out where USM stands in peer rankings relative to the other "major" Mississippi universities. The statement that only 16 of 248 schools were ranked lower than USM was new to me, not the drop to the bottom tier. Thanks in advance for your attempt to enlighten me. It's a daunting task to be sure.

AE

Date: Jul 8, 2005

Paint Bucket wrote:

Ole Miss' peer assessment score is toward the top of the 52 schools in tier three. Only 7 schools in tier three have a peer score above the 2.8 of Ole Miss. State is toward the bottom of tier three with a peer rating of 2.4. Jackson State is in tier four with only 3 schools having a peer score below JSU's 1.9. USM's peer score is 2.2. The tiers are listed in alphabetical order so it is not legitimate to base a ranking on just one dimension like the peer assessment score, but it does give you an idea how a school is viewed by top administrators.

This is the information I was after. Thanks.

AE