President's Cabinet Meeting - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 23, 2005

President's Cabinet Meeting

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Reporter wrote:

Checks for the MIDAS program for this year will be awarded soon. This year 45 faculty will be receiving a total of $525,000.

This would give 45 faculty members an average of $11,666.66 each. What happened to the old fashioned way of rewarding performance on the basis of teaching, research, and service? It would be better if the half-million MIDAS dollars be dumped into the amount available for raises and let the chips fall where they may. The MIDAS way of doing business will ultimately cause hard feelings and decreased faculty effort in non- MIDAS related endeavors.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Why don't they put the $525,000 into street light poles and paving, with the other money?

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Black & Gold Mine wrote:

Reporter wrote: Checks for the MIDAS program for this year will be awarded soon. This year 45 faculty will be receiving a total of $525,000. This would give 45 faculty members an average of $11,666.66 each. What happened to the old fashioned way of rewarding performance on the basis of teaching, research, and service? It would be better if the half-million MIDAS dollars be dumped into the amount available for raises and let the chips fall where they may. The MIDAS way of doing business will ultimately cause hard feelings and decreased faculty effort in non- MIDAS related endeavors.

MIDAS payments to a handful of faculty are made at the expense of departments and colleges, who have lost significant portions of the "indirects" from funded projects. The "many" are deprived for the benefit of the "few" who are thus "incentivized" to try to amass still more for themselves. Some of the most heavily rewarded are in fact completely "bought out" and contribute virtually nothing to their departments' teaching and service missions. It can be argued that MIDAS is thus fundamentally damaging to some units.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Jean, given what some of the grants go to produce, you could also say that some don't even really contribute to the research missions of their respective departments. The damage is real (as you state).

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Does anyone know where to go look to see who received them last summer/fall and the amounts that each person was rewarded. I'd like to know the reasons given for the amounts and people but I know that's asking too much of Shelby Thames and the Hopalong Gang.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Jean Moulin wrote:

Some of the most heavily rewarded are in fact completely "bought out" and contribute virtually nothing to their departments' teaching and service missions. It can be argued that MIDAS is thus fundamentally damaging to some units.

Jean, If you take the MIDAS program to its logical conclusion, i.e., every faculty member on 100% buyout, you would have no faculty in the classrooms.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

The MIDAS program was not well thought out.

As I recall, for a 25% time buy out the faculty member gets a 10% salary bonus. That means that 40% of the salary money in grants is lost. The total number of such grants must increase by over 70% before you are making money with the incentive. Given that external funding has only been increasing by about 5% a year, the program is a huge money loser. This year they have to come up with and give away about half a million dollars that would have been in general revenues for other purposes. It is obvious that the IHL and the local boosters haven't figured it out yet.

The next president will kill this money pit ASAP.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Expect once again Shelby Thames to call WDAM to cover the event, where 45 faculty are given checks of $12,000 apiece. Hattiesburg will come to hate USM faculty even more. It's a stupid thing, making publicity out of this boondoggle.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

MIDAS spelled backwards begins with SAD wrote:

Jean, If you take the MIDAS program to its logical conclusion, i.e., every faculty member on 100% buyout, you would have no faculty in the classrooms.

Actually, a 100% buyout would mean that the faculty member paid 100% of his or her salary through grant money. The colleges are free to use the money to hire instructors or visiting professors to fill these gaps. As such, no classrooms would necessarily be empty.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

Actually, a 100% buyout would mean that the faculty member paid 100% of his or her salary through grant money. The colleges are free to use the money to hire instructors or visiting professors to fill these gaps. As such, no classrooms would necessarily be empty.

And just where would you find that many qualified instructors or visiting professors within the greater Hattiesburg community? If your model were feasible without jeapordizing the students' academic experience, we could hire instructors and visiting professors to do the job and terminate our current faculty.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Mandalay wrote:

And just where would you find that many qualified instructors or visiting professors within the greater Hattiesburg community? If your model were feasible without jeapordizing the students' academic experience, we could hire instructors and visiting professors to do the job and terminate our current faculty.

There are a number of ways in which this could be achieved. For instance, USM could place ads in the Chronicle for visiting professors/clinical professors for terms to match the grant periods. Additionally, retired profs could fill in as adjuncts in a manner that would not jeopardize their retirement.

It's not that hard. The MIDAS program isn't meant for everyone, anyway. The MIDAS program is only for those who have the willingness, the ability, and the wherewithal to go out and get external funding. Many posters on this board do not have these characteristics or opportunities (some through no fault of their own). However, instead of being happy for your "comrades" on the faculty who do get MIDAS money, you begrudge them this bonus for their ingenuity.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Please, let us know what great grant opportunities exist for English, history, political science, foreign language, etc.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

i hear andy wiest in history is getting the first one in arts and letters.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Third Witch wrote:

Please, let us know what great grant opportunities exist for English, history, political science, foreign language, etc.

Reread my post and note that I stipulated that some may not have the opportunity through no fault of their own.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

There are a number of ways in which this could be achieved. For instance, USM could place ads in the Chronicle for visiting professors/clinical professors for terms to match the grant periods. Additionally, retired profs could fill in as adjuncts in a manner that would not jeopardize their retirement. It's not that hard.

It's not that hard? You've got to be kidding. Surely this is a spoof. If it's not a spoof, it has to be written by somebody who knows nothing about faculty recruiting. You'd wind up with a group of lowly paid people who go directly from home to class to home again. What a rip off of the students' tuition.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Bull 'n Bearly wrote:

It's not that hard? You've got to be kidding. Surely this is a spoof. If it's not a spoof, it has to be written by somebody who knows nothing about faculty recruiting. You'd wind up with a group of lowly paid people who go directly from home to class to home again. What a rip off of the students' tuition.

For your information I have been involved in the hiring process a number of times in my career.

As for your speculation, my response is: How is that very different than what USM has now? It would still be a bunch of underpaid people who met classes and then disappeared. And it would still be a rip off of students' tuition.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

How is that very different than what USM has now? It would still be a bunch of underpaid people who met classes and then disappeared. And it would still be a rip off of students' tuition.

The more you write the more naive you appear to be. If you think an 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM schedule is a typical faculty schedule, you've got your head in a sack.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

For your information I have been involved in the hiring process a number of times in my career.

Well, BALDASB, keep watching the help wanted ads. Maybe you'll find steady employment and won't have to be involved in the hiring process again.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Your attempts to smear me only belie your inherent jealousy over the MIDAS program. That's it, isn't it? You don't have a "fair chance" to get a MIDAS check because you're in disciplines that don't have ready access to grants. A poster was correct: grants in the arts, letters, and humanities are few and far between when compared to the sciences.

How about this, AAUP posters: Let's reorganize USM into a unionized shop where everyone gets paid the same salary, regardless of discipline. Then, let's standardize raises as % of those salaries and stipulate that new hires cannot be paid more than the assistant professor scale, so that everything's "fair". I am sure that would please those of you who feel that your important work is being overlooked because you're "underpaid" relative to some co-workers. Jealousy is an ugly beast, and it's oozing out of this thread.

As far as my naivete, you are, of course, free to think whatever you will of me. However, when you gripe and complain about programs like MIDAS, then you only succeed in appearing envious and acrimonious. A word to you about "fairness": There's no such thing. People are born with different skills, talents, and abilities, which are not of their choosing. Then, they are raised in different settings, again not entirely of their choosing. One good person may have few talents that can earn them big money, while a real bastard may be able to earn multi-millions playing football. That's not fair, but that's life.

SFT has created a way to reward those who take on the types of external funding activities that he encourages. Your whining is just so many sour grapes.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Bull 'n Bearly wrote:

The more you write the more naive you appear to be. If you think an 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM schedule is a typical faculty schedule, you've got your head in a sack.

Who said anything about 8 to 5? You're putting words in my mouth. I've had a night class every semester since I've been at USM -- over ten years--in addition to my days classes. I've even taught a five-day-a-week schedule while publishing an average of 3 articles per year. I'll thank you to keep your condecending tone to a minimum.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

And before anybody runs with it, I taught a 5-day schedule only once. Most semesters I have a MWF schedule.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

I have received a bit of MIDAS money, and have mixed feelings about the system. First, many, many institutions have such programs. My course re-assignment money is relatively small change, and I would be writing grants even if this system was not there (there are many other benefits to getting grants--supporting grad students at a living wage; getting some indirects into my department and college to support fellow faculty's research who don't have grants; paying my own travel so there is more cash to go around for others). I would be getting about the same money across 12 months whether I took it the money in a MIDAS like system or paid my summer salary (doing it through MIDAS helps out the system a bit more by building my college's salary recovery money pool). In fact, I take a "buy out" on the books, but teach anyway (as a freebie overload) because it is needed by my department. The downside is that there are plenty of people who attract cash to the university through grants with indirects but no buy outs, contracts with no buy outs or indirects, and other cash generating activities, who I wish were also rewarded for their activities. In addition, people who go above and beyond with non-cash generating activities (e.g., win a national teaching award or have an outstanding publication or creative year) should also get a "bonus." I'd be more than glad to give up some of my MIDAS recovery (don't tell the wife) to such a pool.

Date: Jun 23, 2005

Third Witch wrote:

Please, let us know what great grant opportunities exist for English, history, political science, foreign language, etc.

Contact ORSP. There is money out there for humanistic and social science research.
Here are some places to begin:

NEH
NEA
National Humanities Center
Guggenhiem
ACLS
Dept of Defense [area studies and languages related to the Middle East]
NIH

The only certainty is that if you don't apply, you definitely won't win a grant.

Date: Jun 24, 2005

Actually, you will find this type of reward system almost non-existent in Tier-1 schools. They have incentive programs, but that money is put into the professor's laboratory, not into his/her pocket. OMB andHHS have a strong preference against such reward systems and are very concerned about precisely which money is used. Some of you may have heard about the recent multi-million dollar settlement against Florida International. Faculty reward systems were a part of that process, as well.

HHS says that the Tier-1 system is the proper one. Pay the faculty member what he/she desrves, no matter how high. If external funds are necessary to keep the pay that high, then make that a performance metric, or allow the person to drop to part-time when funds are not sufficient.

Date: Jun 24, 2005

gotta apply first wrote:

Third Witch wrote:
Please, let us know what great grant opportunities exist for English, history, political science, foreign language, etc.

Contact ORSP. There is money out there for humanistic and social science research.
Here are some places to begin:

NEH
NEA
National Humanities Center
Guggenhiem
ACLS
Dept of Defense [area studies and languages related to the Middle East]
NIH

The only certainty is that if you don't apply, you definitely won't win a grant.

The National Humanities Center only takes a couple hundred people a year out of the WHOLE WORLD. Has ANYONE from USM ever been there?

Yes, there are grants for people in the humanities, but usually they DO NOT buy out your class time. And they aren't anything like as big as the science grants.

Sorry, but MIDAS is unfair to people in the humanities. A scholar in the humanities could publish in the leading journals in his field without spending a cent of outside money, and never make a cent from MIDAS. But he would be doing what he was supposed to be doing, right? Creating new knowledge and publishing it? Or is what he is actually supposed to be doing is MAKING MONEY? That's what this is about--not scholarship, but money that Shelby can get his greedy little hands on. He doesn't care about humanities scholarship. If he did, he would have been smart enough to want to keep Gary Stringer.

Date: Jun 24, 2005

Arnold wrote:

The National Humanities Center only takes a couple hundred people a year out of the WHOLE WORLD. Has ANYONE from USM ever been there? Yes, there are grants for people in the humanities, but usually they DO NOT buy out your class time. And they aren't anything like as big as the science grants. Sorry, but MIDAS is unfair to people in the humanities. A scholar in the humanities could publish in the leading journals in his field without spending a cent of outside money, and never make a cent from MIDAS. But he would be doing what he was supposed to be doing, right? Creating new knowledge and publishing it? Or is what he is actually supposed to be doing is MAKING MONEY? That's what this is about--not scholarship, but money that Shelby can get his greedy little hands on. He doesn't care about humanities scholarship. If he did, he would have been smart enough to want to keep Gary Stringer.

It needs to be pointed out that much of what the USM administration calls "research" is actually Contractual Service that doesn't lead to scholarship. Applying known techniques to make old measurements needed by an industry for money is not research scholarship. Research scholarship leads to new knowledge published in internationally recognized, refereed journals. Many government agencies that fund real university research will pay for summer salary, but not academic year salary. They view paying for academic year salary as turning a university into a factory. On the other hand the military and defense agencies do fun academic year salary because they are buying "contracted research" from private companies and universities.

Date: Jun 24, 2005

Here it is, finally, in Arnold's words:

Sorry, but MIDAS is unfair to people in the humanities.

Remember when I said

A word to you about "fairness": There's no such thing. People are born with different skills, talents, and abilities, which are not of their choosing. Then, they are raised in different settings, again not entirely of their choosing. One good person may have few talents that can earn them big money, while a real bastard may be able to earn multi-millions playing football. That's not fair, but that's life.

I knew from the start that the fairness issue was what made MIDAS unacceptable, and I think that Arnold's statement elucidates the real issue. Somewhere along the line, we as humans have developed this ridiculous idea that everything should be fair and equal for all people. The idea that "all men are created equal" doesn't mean that I should have the same salary as Tim Duncan if we're both trying to be basketball players. It's not fair, but it's life.

Date: Jun 24, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

Here it is, finally, in Arnold's words: Sorry, but MIDAS is unfair to people in the humanities. Remember when I said A word to you about "fairness": There's no such thing. People are born with different skills, talents, and abilities, which are not of their choosing. Then, they are raised in different settings, again not entirely of their choosing. One good person may have few talents that can earn them big money, while a real bastard may be able to earn multi-millions playing football. That's not fair, but that's life. I knew from the start that the fairness issue was what made MIDAS unacceptable, and I think that Arnold's statement elucidates the real issue. Somewhere along the line, we as humans have developed this ridiculous idea that everything should be fair and equal for all people. The idea that "all men are created equal" doesn't mean that I should have the same salary as Tim Duncan if we're both trying to be basketball players. It's not fair, but it's life.

Try this scenario to get a handle on what the MIDAS is like for humanities folks: a new president comes in, decides that the traditional core of humanities is vital to the future of the university, rewards nationally-recognized scholars in the humanities with bonuses for work published in peer-reviewed nationally/internationally level journals (where somewhere on the order of 1 out of 15 submissions even make it past the initial review process), pays even higher bonuses to humanities scholars who earn awards from their discipline-specific professional orgainizations for their books and/or articles. When non-humanities professors gripe about the unfairness of this approach the president of USM responds that humanities are the reason that colleges and universities exist and students must first and foremost learn how to read, to write, to express themeselves, to reason, to analyze, in short to think. New president tells non-humanities professors that life isn't fair and they should have chosen a more vital discipline to become an expert in.

In my scenario (unfortunately a dream, but not an impossible one) research and scholarship is rewarded, in the present MIDAS system those aspects are tangential to making MONEY. That is the value USM promotes now: money over all else, society be damned!

Date: Jun 24, 2005

BALDASB wrote:

The idea that "all men are created equal" doesn't mean that I should have the same salary as Tim Duncan if we're both trying to be basketball players. It's not fair, but it's life.

Interesting analogy. You are assuming a level playing field where ability determines the outcome. Suppose someone changed the rules such that Tim's baskets were worth 6 points while yours were devalued. Now you are going to lose because someone decided you should lose. But, as you say, life isn't fair.