Hitting the road, Jack: Its not just for faculty anymore - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jun 15, 2005

Hitting the road, Jack: Its not just for faculty anymore

Date: Jun 15, 2005

And many of these people are going to be much harder to replace with the same level of competence. USM is like an army that's has lost half of its combat troops but also half of the rear support personnel.

But the lightpoles sure are purty.

Date: Jun 15, 2005

Noah's Arc wrote:

Today I learned that USM's Director of Residence Life has taken a position at Ole Miss. That reminded me that last year the USM Comptroller went to Ole Miss. And those two departures reminded me that although the focus in the media has been largely on the faculty, it is not only faculty members who are leaving. According to the data collected by Babbs, during the past three years USM has also lost its Vice President for Research, its Director of University Relations, The Chief Financial Officer of the USM Foundation, the Vice President for University Advancement, the Vice President for USM-GC, two Provosts, the Manager of the Office for Independent Study, the Graduate School Dean, the Director of Food Services, the Vice President for Financial Affairs, the President of the USM Research Foundation, the Manager of the Bookstore, the Director of Grants and Contracts, Director of the Counseling Center, Internship Director at USM Counseling Center, Curator of the DeGrummond Collection, the Director of Public Relations,the Vice President for Facilities/Physical Plant, as well as many staff members from service areas such as the book store, food services, library services, textbook services, marketing and public relations, physical plant, information services, development, the AA/EEOC office, and athletics. Forgive me if I have missed your category. There are too many to name. A few of the above, of course, carried an academic title along with their primary administrative function. A cursory view of this list alone might lead one to conclude that the heart and soul of USM is being drained. Letters to the editor, trolls on this board, and others (you know who) have characterized the USM faculty as lazy and as whiners. It would be interesting to know if those who describe the faculty in that manner would also characterize the non- faculty who have left in droves as lazy and whining.

Thanks very much for calling this to our (or at least my) attention (since others may already have been aware of these facts). They are astonishing.

As to your last question, I suspect that they would claim that anyone associated with a university (except Shelby, of course) is lazy, etc. There is an incredibly strong anti-intellectual bias in this country that pervades many aspects of our culture. Anyone affiliated with a university or college is naturally somewhat suspect by some people, unless they are coaches or players.

Date: Jun 15, 2005

train station wrote:

And many of these people are going to be much harder to replace with the same level of competence. USM is like an army that's has lost half of its combat troops but also half of the rear support personnel.
But the lightpoles sure are purty.

I hate to quibble, but mounted on those hideous concrete foundations the new lightpoles look purty crappy to me.

Date: Jun 15, 2005

Sorry, I forgot to add "satire alert". They'll really look horrid in a couple of years, black turning to ash color with clear glass turning to opaque brown. For a preview look carefully at the ones in front on the library and contrast that with the old ones left standing between the library and the commons. The old ones throw more light and while not exactly beautiful, will age better than the new, spiffy stuff. Somehow the exterior stuff ain't the same as the interior stuff.

What the heck, it's only money coming from faculty lines anyway.

Date: Jun 15, 2005

Noah's Arc wrote:

Today I learned that USM's Director of Residence Life has taken a position at Ole Miss. That reminded me that last year the USM Comptroller went to Ole Miss. And those two departures reminded me that although the focus in the media has been largely on the faculty, it is not only faculty members who are leaving. According to the data collected by Babbs, during the past three years USM has also lost its Vice President for Research, its Director of University Relations, The Chief Financial Officer of the USM Foundation, the Vice President for University Advancement, the Vice President for USM-GC, two Provosts, the Manager of the Office for Independent Study, the Graduate School Dean, the Director of Food Services, the Vice President for Financial Affairs, the President of the USM Research Foundation, the Manager of the Bookstore, the Director of Grants and Contracts, Director of the Counseling Center, Internship Director at USM Counseling Center, Curator of the DeGrummond Collection, the Director of Public Relations,the Vice President for Facilities/Physical Plant, as well as many staff members from service areas such as the book store, food services, library services, textbook services, marketing and public relations, physical plant, information services, development, the AA/EEOC office, and athletics. Forgive me if I have missed your category. There are too many to name. A few of the above, of course, carried an academic title along with their primary administrative function. A cursory view of this list alone might lead one to conclude that the heart and soul of USM is being drained. Letters to the editor, trolls on this board, and others (you know who) have characterized the USM faculty as lazy and as whiners. It would be interesting to know if those who describe the faculty in that manner would also characterize the non- faculty who have left in droves as lazy and whining.

The data reported here would make for a fine letter to the editor.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Noah's Arc wrote:

Today I learned that USM's Director of Residence Life has taken a position at Ole Miss. That reminded me that last year the USM Comptroller went to Ole Miss. And those two departures reminded me that although the focus in the media has been largely on the faculty, it is not only faculty members who are leaving. According to the data collected by Babbs, during the past three years USM has also lost its Vice President for Research, its Director of University Relations, The Chief Financial Officer of the USM Foundation, the Vice President for University Advancement, the Vice President for USM-GC, two Provosts, the Manager of the Office for Independent Study, the Graduate School Dean, the Director of Food Services, the Vice President for Financial Affairs, the President of the USM Research Foundation, the Manager of the Bookstore, the Director of Grants and Contracts, Director of the Counseling Center, Internship Director at USM Counseling Center, Curator of the DeGrummond Collection, the Director of Public Relations,the Vice President for Facilities/Physical Plant, as well as many staff members from service areas such as the book store, food services, library services, textbook services, marketing and public relations, physical plant, information services, development, the AA/EEOC office, and athletics. Forgive me if I have missed your category. There are too many to name. A few of the above, of course, carried an academic title along with their primary administrative function. A cursory view of this list alone might lead one to conclude that the heart and soul of USM is being drained. Letters to the editor, trolls on this board, and others (you know who) have characterized the USM faculty as lazy and as whiners. It would be interesting to know if those who describe the faculty in that manner would also characterize the non- faculty who have left in droves as lazy and whining.

Before you do as suggested and send this to a newspaper you might want to scrub your list for accuracy. For example, the Controller didn't go to Ole Miss but to Alabama and now she's the Assistant Vice-President of Business and Finance. It was the Bursar who left for Ole Miss.

Also, there are persons you list as "gone" who are still here.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Your trying to tell me that the lost of the 'Director of Public Relations' is a "drain" on the heart and soul of our institution? I thought that was a victory?

Date: Jun 16, 2005

As much as it pains me to agree with Malouk, I think it would be better not to publish this list. For example, I was one manager of Independent Study, which is listed, but the position was abolished after I left, and someone else did the work for a while with a different title and yet another person is still doing it. Quibbles could be made (Bookstore is another one. did the manager leave, or just go to work for B&N?)

However, it's true that a lot of good people have left and may be hard to replace, although it'll be easier to replace staff than faculty, given the job market here.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Excuse wrote:

Your trying to tell me that the lost of the 'Director of Public Relations' is a "drain" on the heart and soul of our institution? I thought that was a victory?

I think you missed the point that the poster was making.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

At least one faculty member and two staff members are trucking it up to Oxford. Have USM people gone to Ole Miss in past years?

Date: Jun 16, 2005

LVN wrote:

As much as it pains me to agree with Malouk, I think it would be better not to publish this list.

Nobody suggested publishing the list itself, did they? The thing that might be newsworthy is that USM departures are not limited to only faculty members. Staff and administrators are also leaving.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Malouk wrote:

the Controller didn't go to Ole Miss but to Alabama and now she's the Assistant Vice-President of Business and Finance.

Malouk,

The initial post on this thread indicated that the information came from Babbs list. Here is what Babbs said about the USM Financial Affairs Controller departure: Sam Thomas, Financial Affairs Controller (Bursar, University of Mississippi).

Perhaps it is the Babbs list that should be scrubbed for accuracy.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Picky wrote:

Malouk wrote: the Controller didn't go to Ole Miss but to Alabama and now she's the Assistant Vice-President of Business and Finance. Malouk, The initial post on this thread indicated that the information came from Babbs list. Here is what Babbs said about the USM Financial Affairs Controller departure: Sam Thomas, Financial Affairs Controller (Bursar, University of Mississippi). Perhaps it is the Babbs list that should be scrubbed for accuracy.

Bingo

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Seven Vice Presidents leaving over such a short period is staggering to the mind.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

there is no vice-president of financial affairs

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Considering the emphasis on research funding and economic development matters, the departure of 11 Foundation and Development Officers across campus is also surprising.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Malouk wrote:

there is no vice-president of financial affairs

Seven,

My apologizes, I have been enlightened to your reference (from the memorial wall).

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Malouk wrote:

there is no vice-president of financial affairs

This was on the Babbs list of departures: Linda McFall, Vice President for Financial Affairs (IHL Board)

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Picky wrote:

Malouk wrote: there is no vice-president of financial affairs This was on the Babbs list of departures: Linda McFall, Vice President for Financial Affairs (IHL Board)

Dr. McFall was the Vice-President of Business and Finance. The department of Financial Affairs is headed by the Controller (Comptroller) and reports directly to the Vice-President of B&F.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Malouk wrote:

Dr. McFall was the Vice-President of Business and Finance. The department of Financial Affairs is headed by the Controller (Comptroller) and reports directly to the Vice-President of B&F.

Malouk, Babbs probably depends largely on viewers to provide information on departures. It's not surprising that some of the posiion titles are not accurate in every respect. But the fact that there has been a flood of exits of this nature should be newsworthy within itself.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Go to press! wrote:

Malouk wrote: Dr. McFall was the Vice-President of Business and Finance. The department of Financial Affairs is headed by the Controller (Comptroller) and reports directly to the Vice-President of B&F. Malouk, Babbs probably depends largely on viewers to provide information on departures. It's not surprising that some of the posiion titles are not accurate in every respect. But the fact that there has been a flood of exits of this nature should be newsworthy within itself.

I would whole-heartedly agree with that - it is probably newsworthy to some level. Some of these people would have left without the suffocating atmosphere, and some would be considered a victory by most on this board.

My original point was get the facts before going to the press - they wont.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

This is most interesting, since many on the list are those you either wanted or caused to leave. Yet another double standard. When they are here, you want them gone. When they are gone, you say it is proof of poor leadership. You can't have it both ways.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Machiavelli wrote:

This is most interesting, since many on the list are those you either wanted or caused to leave. Yet another double standard. When they are here, you want them gone. When they are gone, you say it is proof of poor leadership. You can't have it both ways.

Mach,

The basic point is that high administrative turmoil can all be traced back to Shelby's incompetent leadership, one way or another. If a good person is in an administrative position and leaves because he cannot stand the environment Shelby has created at USM, then the departure can be laid at Shelby's feet. If Shelby appoints an incompetent person to an administrative position and that person eventually proves his or her incompetence and decides to leave (or is shoved out), then the turnover can still be laid at Shelby's feet for appointing an incompetent in the first place.

As many of us have said over and over, the distinctive feature at USM -- the feature that makes USM unfortunately unique among American universities -- is Shelby Thames. I honestly can't think of another university that has suffered, or is suffering, the same kind of turmoil, even though the faculty, staff, students, alumni, and communites of those other universities are not radically different from the ones at USM. In this way if in no other, Shelby has truly distinguished himself as special (to echo the beloved Church Lady).

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Underground Railroad wrote:

At least one faculty member and two staff members are trucking it up to Oxford. Have USM people gone to Ole Miss in past years?

Clay Jones, who was associate director of HR at USM when Linda McFall was HR director. He is now the HR director at Ole Miss and has been there for several years. Russ Willis moved to the HR office from Admissions when Clay Jones left for Ole Miss.

Lorinda Krhut's impending departure is interesting. She has been at USM for over 15 years, her husband oversees the landscaping/grounds for the physical plant and they have two children enrolled at USM-meaning they get 100% tuition waivers since both parents work at the university.

Point of clarification regarding Sam Thomas and Dana Keith: Sam Thomas was the bursar for several years before moving into the controller position. Dana Keith was the budget director. Gregg Lassen, supposedly at the recommendation of Pileum, decided to transfer Thomas, Keith, and Beth Cooksey (who was director of physical plant accounting) for the purpose of "cross training." Dana Keith moved to the controller position, Beth Cooksey moved to the budget director position, and Sam Thomas was supposed to move to the physical plant accounting director position, which to many seemed like a demotion.

Meanwhile, Ole Miss had a vacancy in its bursar position, and they wanted Sam Thomas. My understanding is he got a nice raise and a lot less headache. Sam Thomas is likeable, honest, and competent-no wonder the administration squeezed him out.

As for Dana Keith, she did stay in the controller position for a short period, but accepted the AVP for business and finance position at UA, reuniting her with former USM business VP Lynda Gilbert (a Fleming hire). Beth Cooksey did not stay in the budget director position very long, either. She accepted a position at a college in Tennessee.

Bottom line-the institutional memory in the financial area of the university is kaput.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Machiavelli wrote:

This is most interesting, since many on the list are those you either wanted or caused to leave. Yet another double standard. When they are here, you want them gone. When they are gone, you say it is proof of poor leadership. You can't have it both ways.

Machiavelli, you just don't seem to get it. Noah's Arc was only pointing out that there has been a remarkably large turnover in staff and administrative positions at USM. Nothing was said about about who among the departures is good or who is bad. But now that you bring up the subject of good vs. bac, when the bad ones leave that is also turnover. One can't pick and choose who to put on a list of departures. Departures are departures. They are also turnovers whether good or bad. Do you think that bringing in bad people is evidence of leadership?

Date: Jun 16, 2005

Ararat wrote:

Do you think that bringing in bad people is evidence of leadership?

Yes: bad leadership!

Date: Jun 16, 2005

SI, is your definition of competent directly tied to likeable? Word on the street was that he was in over his head.

Date: Jun 16, 2005

mutexclu wrote:

SI, is your definition of competent directly tied to likeable? Word on the street was that he was in over his head.

No, my definition of competent is not tied directly to likeable.