The Independent 5/26/05 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 26, 2005

The Independent 5/26/05

Date: May 26, 2005

Any more info about this article, possibly including a full paraphrase, would be much appreciated; thanks!

Does the article indicate the arguments made by Shelby's supporters?

Date: May 26, 2005

I am surprised and somewhat dubious about the statement that Dr. Thames was considered for these other presidencies. It would be interesting to know the source. Also, would anyone care to speculate as to why Ms. Whitten would vociferously support Dr. Thames? Again, it would be helpful to have some idea where this information is coming from.

Date: May 26, 2005

Reporter,

Does the article give any details about Thames' applications to be president of other universities in the Misssissippi state system? When he was offered the presidency of MUW?

What's a little odd about Amy Whitten being credited with membership in the "gang of four" is that she was not present at either the April Board meeting or the special meeting on May 6 that, directly or indirectly, decided Thames' fate. I'd expected to see Davidson's name in place of hers.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" He was considered for… Delta State University, Mississippi State University and Mississippi University for Women. He was offered the presidency at MUW and declined the offer, choosing to stay at USM instead"

Whooooeeee, other state universities. Look over your shoulder. You could be next!

Date: May 26, 2005

The Independent has spoken several times on the USM matter. They've not been wrong yet.

Date: May 26, 2005

If this information is correct, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, it is a big, big scoop.

Date: May 26, 2005

If any of us call ourselves scholars, we have to apply the same principles of reason and proof to any and all information we receive. It's tempting to buy into what we want to believe, and we've all done it. This would indeed be a "big scoop" -- all the more reason to have a firm underpinning of fact.

Date: May 26, 2005

reader beware! another of those infamous independent stories. remember the faculty vandalism that supposedly happened! reported by the independent. i'm beginning to think independent means "divorced from reality."

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: LVN
"If any of us call ourselves scholars, we have to apply the same principles of reason and proof to any and all information we receive. It's tempting to buy into what we want to believe, and we've all done it. This would indeed be a "big scoop" -- all the more reason to have a firm underpinning of fact."

Agreed. But for the most part we seem to take what the American or the Clarion-Ledger says at face value. I think that The Independent is locally owned and locally run, and is aspiring to establish a place for itself among the local news media. They are probably very careful in ensuring that what they report is accurate.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i'm beginning to think independent means "divorced from reality.""

SCM, I believe that you will soon change your tune and will then think that independent means journalistic integrity.

Date: May 26, 2005

local--the independent is going to have to go a long, long way to show me they stand for journalistic integrity.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"reader beware! another of those infamous independent stories. remember the faculty vandalism that supposedly happened! reported by the independent. i'm beginning to think independent means "divorced from reality.""

At the very least, "divorced from normal journalistic practice"... I agree with SCM on this one. The bit about SFT being considered at DSU, MSU & MUW is in direct conflict with his own statement about never having been interested in a presidency. Of course, we all know that SFT never dissembles, but frankly, that part of the story is mighty far-fetched.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"

At the very least, "divorced from normal journalistic practice"... I agree with SCM on this one. The bit about SFT being considered at DSU, MSU & MUW is in direct conflict with his own statement about never having been interested in a presidency. Of course, we all know that SFT never dissembles, but frankly, that part of the story is mighty far-fetched. "

Sorry, I find it hard to believe the statements about SFT being considered for the presidency of ANY university. If anything, if true, it confirms that IHL has a few screws loose.............

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" At the very least, "divorced from normal journalistic practice"... I agree with SCM on this one. The bit about SFT being considered at DSU, MSU & MUW is in direct conflict with his own statement about never having been interested in a presidency. Of course, we all know that SFT never dissembles, but frankly, that part of the story is mighty far-fetched. "

Invictus, as much as I admire and respect you - doesn't your post stating that it is "in direct conflict with his own statement about never having been interested in a presidency" sort of keep what the Independent says somewhat fair and balanced??

Date: May 26, 2005

Creeps, I meant Keeps!!!

Date: May 26, 2005

I think Robert Campbell is right, as usual. Amy Whitten did not attend the relevant meetings, and I think (check the minutes of the screamfest to confirm) that Scott Ross did not attend one. Thus, however much one wishes that the Independent had scoop-ability (or at least the nerve to challenge and dig), Pittman's sources might be not so trustworthy on this one.

Date: May 26, 2005

Another thought -- this is so intriguing -- I seriously doubt SFT was a candidate at any of the institutions named. Considering his love for USM, can you imagine him at MSU? SFT as MUW prez recalls the bull in the china cabinet. DSU sounds unlikely, too. (That's a teachin' not a researchin' school.) But it remains intriguing because the only way he could have found his way into those searches was if Aubrey Lucas or Bobby Chain managed his campaign for him, if SFT had asked for their support. And that would be ridiculous. So, we've had our fun with the Independent. Let us adjourn, sine die.

Date: May 26, 2005

Sympathizer, LVN and Robert,

The article didn't give any reasons why the supports held their positions. The article doesn't identify any sourses. I too was surprised at the offers of the presidency at other universities. When I told a colleague today, thinking I had hot news, the colleague already know that SFT was offered the MUW position. I not sure of the time frame, but I believe it may be the year before Fleming got canned.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" When I told a colleague today, thinking I had hot news, the colleague already know that SFT was offered the MUW position. I not sure of the time frame, but I believe it may be the year before Fleming got canned. "

Wouldn't that have been about the time Clyda Rent was dismissed following the several no-confidence faculty votes?

It might be hard to confirm whether the position was actually offered to SFT, but shouldn't it be fairly easy to find out if he was among the finalists for the position? Did the "W" do a secret president search? If SFT was interviewed for the position, wouldn't basically everybody on the Columbus campus have known about it? Did the "W" do a secret president search?

Date: May 26, 2005

Sorry for the dupe. Copy/paste instead of cut/paste.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"When I told a colleague today, thinking I had hot news, the colleague already know that SFT was offered the MUW position. I not sure of the time frame, but I believe it may be the year before Fleming got canned. "

Reporter, what your colleague told you does conform to what you indicated the Independent article said: "He was offered the presidency at MUW and declined the offer, choosing to stay at USM instead."

The Independent didn't say that SFT made the "cut." It only said SFT was "considered " at those other schools. Makes sense to me.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Checking it twice
" Reporter, what your colleague told you does conform to what you indicated the Independent article said: "He was offered the presidency at MUW and declined the offer, choosing to stay at USM instead." The Independent didn't say that SFT made the "cut." It only said SFT was "considered " at those other schools. Makes sense to me. "

Yes, Checking. That's the way I see it also.

P.S. Sorry for all of the typos in my earlier post.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" Wouldn't that have been about the time Clyda Rent was dismissed following the several no-confidence faculty votes? It might be hard to confirm whether the position was actually offered to SFT, but shouldn't it be fairly easy to find out if he was among the finalists for the position? Did the "W" do a secret president search? If SFT was interviewed for the position, wouldn't basically everybody on the Columbus campus have known about it? Did the "W" do a secret president search?"

Good questions. If I find the answers I will post them.

Date: May 26, 2005

Why in heaven's name would anybody else WANT him?

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" It might be hard to confirm whether the position was actually offered to SFT, but shouldn't it be fairly easy to find out if he was among the finalists for the position?"

I see what you're talking about ram, but what if he was a early candidate but not a finalist? In that case he wouldn't have even been invited for an on-campus interview. It would surprise me if departments on the Hattiesburg campus were required to make public the names of all of those who only submitted an application for consideration.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"Why in heaven's name would anybody else WANT him?"

The IHL wanted him. Evidently many in the Hattiesburg business community wanted him. Some influential alumni evidently wanted him. Evidently many athletic supporters on EagleTalk wanted him.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Third Witch
"Why in heaven's name would anybody else WANT him?"

A job applicant doesn't have to be wanted in order to apply for the position.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Aye
"The IHL wanted him. Evidently many in the Hattiesburg business community wanted him. Some influential alumni evidently wanted him. Evidently many athletic supporters on EagleTalk wanted him. "

Sorry, I meant why would anybody at another school want him? MUW has a strong, pro-liberal arts alumni base. He'd have lasted about a week there, unless the ladies (and it was mostly women until when?) saw him in action and ran him out of town on a rail after the first interview. Remember, this is a man who yelled at a female student during interviews on the coast.

Date: May 26, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lindy
"I see what you're talking about ram, but what if he was a early candidate but not a finalist? In that case he wouldn't have even been invited for an on-campus interview. It would surprise me if departments on the Hattiesburg campus were required to make public the names of all of those who only submitted an application for consideration."

Now how interesting is it if the man who "never wanted to be President" was actually a potential candidate for at at least one and possibly two other MS universities before the job at USM was offered to him . . . . ?

And if he was interested in those other jobs, then of course he must have been interested in USM earlier than was previously acknowleged.

So how did he get on the search committee in the first place if, in the end , he was likely to be a candidate. Is it even conceivable that he could have been entertaining other possibilities but WAS NOT interested in USM?

Something smells and the chronology and the facts are very important here. I think that someone with some official interest on behalf of the university (senate exec committee? members of the previous campus earch committee?) should make an appointment with Tom Pittman and find out what information he has . . .

If the Independent has information on this it could really be dynamite --