AAUP next year - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: May 14, 2005

AAUP next year

Date: May 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Question
"Who will be the AAUP's officers next year? (Forgive me if this information was posted elsewhere; I couldn't find it if it was)"

My understanding is that the current officers will continue through the summer; election of new officers will take place in fall. The executive committee is preparing to respond to the board's action on Thames, whatever it is. The hope is that the main AAUP action will be a strong statement -- and subsequent campaign centered on that statement -- regarding the essential qualities of the new president.

Date: May 14, 2005

Is there any news from national AAUP? I don't understand why USM has not been censured.

Date: May 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Arnold
"Is there any news from national AAUP? I don't understand why USM has not been censured."

I'm with you, Arnie. Not that it would matter. I thought the SACS probation and the USNews ratings would wake up the IHL members who seem to be sleeping through the storm.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Arnold
"Is there any news from national AAUP? I don't understand why USM has not been censured."

Arnold,

National AAUP moves very slowly on these things, when it moves at all.

If the national AAUP investigates and censures USM's administration, that will be helpful.

But no one should wait for it to happen.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Arnold
"Is there any news from national AAUP? I don't understand why USM has not been censured."

Amy Young reported at a chapter meeting (March/April?) that the national office is currently evaluating a request for sanction of the USM administration based on the lengthy and sustained pattern of disregard for AAUP principles on governance. The wheels grind slowly, but they do grind. Communication between national and the chapter has been regular and supportive. The national staff has written several letters to IHL; the most recent endorsed the Faculty Senate's recommendation to commence immediately the search for a new president.

Date: May 15, 2005

Wake up and smell the coffee....nobody other than they 30 something members and the Hattiesburg American, cares about the AAUP at Southern Miss.

Get over yourselves. Hand down your little censure, it won't matter. The AAUP has done more to hinder your struggle against Thames than to help. Outside of the University and in some cornors of the University the AAUP is considered a joke.

Like it or not, it's a fact.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
". Outside of the University and in some cornors of the University the AAUP is considered a joke.

Like it or not, it's a fact."

It's a joke down at Warren Paving, or over on Jamestown Rd, maybe. At almost every other university in America, it's pretty serious business. But of course around here we don't care about our reputation, do we?

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Wake up and smell the coffee....nobody other than they 30 something members and the Hattiesburg American, cares about the AAUP at Southern Miss.

Get over yourselves. Hand down your little censure, it won't matter. The AAUP has done more to hinder your struggle against Thames than to help. Outside of the University and in some cornors of the University the AAUP is considered a joke.

Like it or not, it's a fact."

You're wrong on this one. The AAUP has 45,000 members nationwide. When I went to my first AAUP meeting at my new school and people found out I had come from USM, they knew exactly what school it was and what had happened there. I also met Jane Buck, the national president of AAUP and she informed me that they are watching Mississippi very closely. Hundreds of miles away from USM, my new colleagues still ask how things are going at USM.

It is only Mississippi residents who believe that they are not part of a larger world. If and when the AAUP censures USM, 45,000 academics will know about it, and they will tell their friends and their most promising PhD students not to accept a position there. No decent faculty will come to USM. But of course, you don't care if USM has high-quality faculty members or not, do you?

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Wake up and smell the coffee....nobody other than they 30 something members and the Hattiesburg American, cares about the AAUP at Southern Miss. Get over yourselves. Hand down your little censure, it won't matter. The AAUP has done more to hinder your struggle against Thames than to help. Outside of the University and in some cornors of the University the AAUP is considered a joke. Like it or not, it's a fact."

Good Morning K.K.

I'm not a member of AAUP, local or national organizations. I tell you this just so you know. I disagree with your first statement as being meaningful. People around here never cared about SACS, or even knew what it was until they hit USM with probation. Censure by the national AAUP does matter. It will severely affect recruitment of both high quality students and faculty. The IHL Board would be in disgrace and that will impact the other universities in this state. I imagine Ole Miss people will get plenty upset and you could expect the legislature to get involved.

I wouldn't boast about considering the AAUP a joke around people who knew academics. It's like someone boasting that the IRS is a joke. It's funny until the fool is audited.

What I really responded to your post for was to ask you to answer a question. Why do you say, "The AAUP has done more to hinder your struggle against Thames than to help."? Can you explain to us what they did wrong in your opinion?

Thanks K.K.

Date: May 15, 2005

I can see, unfortunately, that Kudzu King was just waiting to jump in with FUD concerning the national AAUP. So let me clarify.

It will matter--a bunch--if the national AAUP censures USM. For one thing, it will solidify the terrible reputation that USM has already earned with professors elsewhere in the United States. (And the further hit to academic reputation will keep USM firmly mired in US News' 4th tier...) It will also harm the reputation of the entire state university system in Mississippi, because it's impossible to censure Thames and his administration without implicating the university's governing board--i.e., the IHL. In fact, it would not surprise me to see the IHL Board directly cited in the censure.

My reason for recommending caution was the national AAUP's history of failing to take action against fairly serious administrative malfeasance at other universities. In other words, for every university that has appeared on the national AAUP censure list, there has probably been at least one more that should have been on the list, but wasn't.

But administrative malfeasance can't get a whole lot more serious than it has at USM. And USM doesn't have enough prestige to scare anyone in the national office of the AAUP. I did not know that the national office had written to the IHL in support of the Faculty Senate's letter calling for Thames' replacement. That is a pretty good sign that if Thames doesn't quickly became a lame duck, a censure will be forthcoming.

Kudzu King, by mixing up one local chapter of the AAUP (which has something like 65 members) with the national organization, then sneering at the national organization, you are once again betraying your total ignorance of the way that universities work.

You should remember that Roy Klumb tried to pooh-pooh the significance of SACS probation. That didn't exactly get Klumb what he wanted, now did it? I'm sure Klumb's dopey remarks about SACS were taken as Exhibit A by those Board members who got behind the move to increase the powers of the IHL Commissioner.

Robert Campbell

Date: May 15, 2005

I think KK expresses the opinion of the general population of south Mississippi. A lot of folks have "bought into' the notion that the AAUP is a some type of collective bargaining agent or union. However, the general population of south Mississippi has little continuing interest in anything but the most superficial of issues. The general public thinks the problem is solved when it is no longer news. The general public will be just as satisfied when SFT is removed from office, or in the alternative, when the faculty is so crippled that it can do nothing but resign itself to silent compliance.

Ironically, this is the very antithesis of the concept of "world class." It is provincial, regional thinking. It is as if the supporters of SFT are saying, "We don't care what the the rest of the world thinks, we are Southern Miss! 'Nuff said." In fact, I bet I could post that last sentence on EagleTalk, and I'd be answered with resounding affirmation.

Irrespective of whether we believe it or like it, USM is part of the rest of the academic world. To believe otherwise is to marginalize USM, and eventually the graduates of USM.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"

Irrespective of whether we believe it or like it, USM is part of the rest of the academic world. To believe otherwise is to marginalize USM, and eventually the graduates of USM.
"

This is a critical, critical point which people on the outside are not getting. Reputation is everything. Yes you can get a job in this area with a degree from USM. Yes you can go on to graduate school with a degree from USM. But for how much longer? At some point, your undergraduate degree from USM will not get you into a topflight graduate, law, or medical school. In fact, I have been told by both professors and doctors that a degree from USM is not very helpful in getting you into medical school even now.

When I was planning to do a PhD some years back, I was advised to apply to the strongest programs I could. I was told that the work was not any harder at the "name" schools and that the school on the diploma could make the difference between a great job or a mediocre one.

And if we lose accreditation, your diploma will not be good for anything.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"nobody other than they 30 something members and the Hattiesburg American, cares about the AAUP at Southern Miss . . . . . . .Outside of the University and in some cornors of the University the AAUP is considered a joke."

I seriously doubt that Kudzu King is even vaguely aware of AAUP principles. And there is really no need that he be aware of them any more than I need to be aware of the principles governing the Proctology Society of America. Academics is clearly not Kudzu's thing. Proctology is clearly not my thing.

Nonetheless, if USM had subscribed to AAUP principles years ago the current tragedy at USM might never have occurred. The neglect of prior administrations continues to haunt USM even today. The sore has finally festered.

Date: May 15, 2005

It is interesting to note that AAUP influences are now showing up in the revised (with faculty input) Strategic Plan. In the section on 'values' that support the Mission one finds

"• Academic freedom and shared governance are long-established and living principles at the university. We cherish the free exchange of ideas, diversity of thought, joint decision making, and individuals’ assumption of responsibility."

While we can challenge the historicity of the statement given the events of the last three years, its presence in the SP gives our concerns greater validity.

The SP is downloadable at http://www.usm.edu/ie/index.htm

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Festus
"It is interesting to note that AAUP influences are now showing up in the revised (with faculty input) Strategic Plan. "

The establishment of an AAUP chapter is probably the most postive thing that has occurred at USM in decades. The chapter is small, but the influence is great. As time passes the water at USM will be clean and pure.

Date: May 15, 2005

Many excellent points are made on this thread. Thanks, KK, for provoking them!

If and when USM is censured by the national AAUP, that fact will attract national attention in the Chronicle of Higher Education, which is read routinely by most academics everywhere. If you think USM has a lousy national reputation now (and it does), wait until the censure comes through.

Of more pressing importance, of course, are the further, more serious problems likely to result when the time comes for SACS reaccreditation.

Date: May 15, 2005

I heard that there was a time at USM when even thinking the letters AAUP would put you on a list of undesirables.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" I wouldn't boast about considering the AAUP a joke around people who knew academics. It's like someone boasting that the IRS is a joke. It's funny until the fool is audited."

Mr. Wonderful, is you listening? Please give this serious consideration for the June 5 award.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Cub Reporter
"Mr. Wonderful, is you listening? Please give this serious consideration for the June 5 award."

Mr. Wonderful is detained, but I is listening. Duly noted, Cub Reporter.

Date: May 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Post Toastie
"I heard that there was a time at USM when even thinking the letters AAUP would put you on a list of undesirables. "

Heck, that time may still be going on. I knew faculty members who were scared to put an AAUP sticker on their car. Once last year when the press came to an AAUP meeting, people were joking about wearing a paper bag over their heads. I think it was only halfway a joke.