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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> Seeker's view of the Hattiesburg Mayor's Race
Post Info TOPIC: Seeker's view of the Hattiesburg Mayor's Race
Seeker

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Seeker's view of the Hattiesburg Mayor's Race
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I had decided not to post on this issue. But, my friend LVN has asked me to start a thread giving my opinion of the situation. I will try to make it brief and I also understand that whatever I say will (and should be) taken with a grain of salt.

I am still a registed voter in H'burg. I will either vote absentee or return home to vote. I still consider H'burg my home.

Hattiesburg is in much worse shape in many respects than even some of the candidates are claiming. I will try to list a few issues that I am aware of:

- City Hall: It has become almost impossible to work with city hall, for years under Chain and Morgan, doing business with City Hall was fairly easy. Permits were handled in an efficient manner, issues were addressed quickly and in general from a business prespective things ran pretty smoothly. Under Dupree is has become very difficult to work with city hall. I have spoken with several individuals who have taken projects outside of the city (Petal, Lamar County) because it was too much red-tape inside the city to worry with. Permit applications are frequently lost and or never issued. Zoning issues are a nightmare and general issues have caused investors to consider doing business outside the city. Capital investment inside the city has plunged in the last four years.

- Police Department: Several individuals I went to HS with are now city officiers in the burg. They are all looking for a way out. Those with several years experience are applying everyday for jobs with Highway Patrole, Public Service Commission, City of Petal and even the Perry County Sheriff's department. Moral is as low, if not lower among city cops as it is with you guys. There have been wild rumors of widespread corruption in the department. None of my friends have outright said anything, but they sure won't jump to deny it either. Wynn is not compentant to do the job, and is rumored to be supressing the actual number of crimes committed in the city, by not reporting many common crimes.

- Fire Department: I have a friend from HS that is a Hattiesburg Firefighter, or should I saw was. He left the department to take a job in Petal. They have major issues there as well. Internally it may be even worse than the PD.

- Infrastructure: Have streets, drainage, and general disrepair ever been worse in the city.

- Hiring practices: The number of employees has balloned since Dupree took office. Rumor also says that if you are not a member Mt Carmel Church you don't get hired by the city at this point. You know how rumors are, but you sure hear that one a lot.

Bottom, line the Dupree administration has been an utter failure for the City. His time in office has probably set the city back more than a decade. Thing will only get worse at an escellating (sp) pace if he is re-elected.

My feelings on the candidates running against Dupree are as follows.

I am 90% sure I will vote for Col. Senne in the primary. I believe he is the most qualified individual for the job. He is a proven manage in the military, academia and the private sector. But, sadly I don't beleive Col Senne will win the GOP Primary.

Betsy Rowell: Is mean spirited and is showing it at every turn. She slams Dupree and Wynn and now is rumored to have Stone Barefield running the attack ads on Davis. Many view her as a strong woman, maybe that's correct. She looks more like a mean woman to me. Still a better candidate in my opinion than Dupree. If she is in the general with Dupree, I will vote for her.

Lee Jarrell Davis: I know this is an individual that many on this board are fundamentally against. I can see your point of view on that. I personnelly like LJD, he's a decent guy. I honestly believe he loves Southern Miss as much as I do, and as much as many here do. Many see him as an ally of SFT, and maybe he is, but he is an ally of USM first. I would have no reservations whatsoever of voting for him against Dupree.

I certainly won't try to tell anyone here who to vote for, you are all much more intelligent than I. But, I think that it is obvious that the road that Dupree is leading Hattiesburg down is at least as distructive as the path the University is on, and maybe worse.

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Sordid Politics

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You can take the boy out of Nitchampburg but you can't take Nitchampberg out of the boy.

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Sordid Politics

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I was just kidding, Seeker. Welcome back!

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LVN

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Thank you Seeker. That was extremely interesting. And quite well-organized too. However, I'm puzzled about the Stone Barefield thing. I thought he was suing BR and Carter over the apartments he wanted to build.

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Politically correct

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Seeker is certainly right about the state of affairs in Hattiesburg, but he's a little misinformed about the sleezy campaign the Barefield's (just sore losers in my opionion) have been running against Betsy Rowell.  And does he know about the Davis attack adds that Nathan Jordan, former head of the NAACP I believe, has been running .  Pretty slick on Jordan's part to let people jump to the conclusion that Betsy is the responsible party.  Lee Jerrell certainly fell for it, and is now launching his own attack adds against Betsy.  I think that rather than being mean spirited, Betsy Rowell is on the receiving end of a mean spirit or two.

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Seeker

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I thought it was a pretty good summary from 700 miles away.

You are right, I don't have all the inside dirt on the dirty radio ads, but I do know that a change in city government is needed. And I will vote for whoever ends up in the general against Dupree....Senne, Davis, Rowell.....any would be an improvment.

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Cossack

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I will repeat what I have said before. I do not care about what others think about how well or badly Hattiesburg is being administrated. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I will vote for Dupree because he stood up SFT and won in the bond issue. The movers and shakers in Hattiesburg Community (which includes those who live out side the city) have been very comfortable demeaning faculty and supporting SFT. Consequently, I do not care if the city crumbles, East Hattiesburg already has crumbled and will not get squat from the others running. Any faculty member who votes for Rowell or Davis will be voting for SFT influence in the mayor's office.

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Seeker

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Cossack

I sincerely hope you are more level headed when you instruct our students at Southern Miss. The kind of thinking that you present in your last post is most disturbing. I don't hope to change your mind, you clearly feel that you are far superior to me in just about any imaginable way. It is amazing to me that someone, who claims to be so open minded and free thinking, as you is so obtuse on this subject.

I don't understand you, and won't even attempt to at this point.



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stephen judd

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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"Cossack I sincerely hope you are more level headed when you instruct our students at Southern Miss. The kind of thinking that you present in your last post is most disturbing. I don't hope to change your mind, I don't hope to change your mind, you clearly feel that you are far superior to me in just about any imaginable way.  The kind of thinking that you present in your last post is most disturbing. It is amazing to me that someone, who claims to be so open minded and free thinking, as you is so obtuse on this subject. I don't understand you, and won't even attempt to at this point. "

Interesting, Seeker, that virtually every time you "rrebut" an argument, you kik in a few argumentum ad hominums. Cossack, in fact, said nothing about being "superior" to you -- he simply diagreed with what you said.


Let me cite your personal attacks (sans argument) on Cossack:


"Cossack I sincerely hope you are more level headed . . . . " (i.e. you aren't level headed)


"The kind of thinking that you present in your last post is most disturbing." (Ergo anyone who thinks that way is disturbed).


"you clearly feel that you are far superior to me in just about any imaginable way."


It is amazing to me that someone, who claims to be so open minded and free thinking as you is so obtuse on this subject. (in other words, you are so obtuse you can hardly be credited with being as open minded and free thinking as you claim.)


Here is what you could have said, sans personal attacks:


The kind of thinking that you present in your last post disturbs me. I don't hope to change your mind.  I don't understand how  you can be so obtuse on this subject. I don't understand you. I am confused."


Without the personal attack, the onus for misunderstanding falls on you, rather than on Cossack - not a bad discussion position if you are trying to admit that Cossack has a legitimate, albeit opposing point of view, from your own. On the other hand, discussion doesn't really seem to be your agenda -- I'll admit that this method of attack (intended or accidental) is a lot more subtle than some other folks,  but it is still pretty transparent.


Sans personal attacks, there isn't much of substance -- although Cossack might feel that your attempt at communication might be a genuinely open-minded effort to note your own confusion in an open ended strategy to continue the communication.


Discussion is a lot like play. The most important rule tends to be to avoid doing anything that will stop the action. If I take the football home as part of the game, it "breaks the rules" because it effectively stops the game. Personal attacks, hwoever well disguised, tend to move toward the same end -- shutting down discussion.


I hope you won't come back with any rebuttal that what I have done here is itself a personal attack on you. It isn't -- I don't know you and I do not believe I have said anything about YOU here. I have, however, analyzed what you have written. It may even be a poor critique -- but it is a critique of the writing . . . . not the person who wrote it.


Incidently, I actually think it is OK to attack someone on personal grounds -- as long as one can demonstrate that there is some relationship between the person and the action that comes from that person. But I tend to reserve that kind of strategy for war in which my object is not to convert but to destroy or demoralize the opposition. From your previous posts, I don't really think that this is the kiond of rhetorical purpose you really have in mind.


 


 


 



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Cossack

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I sincerely hope you are more level headed when you instruct our students at Southern Miss. The kind of thinking that you present in your last post is most disturbing. I don't hope to change your mind, you clearly feel that you are far superior to me in just about any imaginable way. It is amazing to me that someone, who claims to be so open minded and free thinking, as you is so obtuse on this subject.

Seeker,

When I instruct my students, I teach what is in the literature, the textbook, and my personal knowledge from my own research. I do not talk about the problems at USM. I do not talk about elections. I do not discuss my political agenda. My job is to help students prepare themselves for life and jobs.

In addition, I do not think about other people in terms of superior or inferior. These are value terms that are not incorporated into my thinking. I have more knowledge in some areas than most people and in many areas I have less knowledge. My reason for voting for Johnny Dupree is personal in that I see first hand the damage that SFT has done to the university, the various colleges and to the quality of education that comes from his antics.

I have posted on the board a message about the focus on USM and the absence of focus on other universities in this state. Since there are no comments made about faculty at Ole Miss or State being lazy and worthless, it must be limited to USM. How did all of the sorry faculty end up at USM and not at any other university? Maybe it is because Hattiesburg is a magnet for lazy incompetent people.

I have followed your posts and you have portrayed yourself as one who is committed to USM and are interested in seeing it do well. I think that the best thing you could do for USM is to lead an attack on the faculty of Ole Miss and State. In addition, you can lobby for SFT to become President of one of those universities so he can straighten them out also. Most of the USM folks would be glad to share him with the rest of the state so that all of Mississippi can benefit from his talents. Think how much more of an impact SFT can have in Mississippi if he can do to Ole Miss and State what he has done to USM.


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Seeker

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Cossack

It seems that you are confusing me with someone who is a Thames supporter. I am far from a Thames supporter. I know the harm that has befallen my University. I also know that nothing that Thames can do at this point will help the University. Whether you are right or wrong, when nobody among the faculty wants to work with, even to some point that you may be undermined, it's time to leave. I wish he would see this. I will never understand your logic.

I guess, I just have the ability to separate city politics from campus politics.


Dr. Judd

You are one individual that on this medium that I have the utmost respect for. I feel that you are bright, well spoken and fair-minded. But, I must say that I after reading your rebut to me, I feel that I have been robbed of a small portion of my life. I have read and re-read your post several times. I have come to the conclusion that I am dumber for having read, a very long post that basically said the same thing about a dozen times, with very large words.

To summarize what you said, "Stop being mean to Cossack." Ok, I will.

Dr Judd, you don't have to try to prove how intelligent you are, I have long considered you to very educated and of fine scholarship. In the future, a simple to the point post will suffice.


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Nicely Nicely

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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"Dr Judd, you don't have to try to prove how intelligent you are, I have long considered you to very educated and of fine scholarship. In the future, a simple to the point post will suffice. "
Everybody has seemed to try to be nice to Seeker. I guess you just can't be nice to some people. Best to say nothing.

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Cossack

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Seeker,

I am not confused, dense maybe, but not confused. Also, I was not aware that Professor Judd thought you were mean to me. One of the benefits from being dense is that you are not aware when people are mean to you. I have acknowledged that you support USM and I do not think that you are a SFT fan. What I would like for you to address is why the lazy worthless faculty are at USM and the Board feels the need to kick the faculty hard and often at USM. They seem to have no interest in attacking the faculty at any of the other institutions. Why has the rest of the state ganged up on USM? What drives so many Board members to hate USM to the extent that they are pleased to see it destroyed? Why are they so set on destroying your university? If you are really upset about what is being done to your university, you have kept a very stiff upper lip. Your posts do not reflect that you are really distraught. The faculty at USM are irrelevant to what is unfolding. It would not matter who they were. If you moved the entire Ole Miss faculty to USM, they would instantly be lazy worthless pieces of crap once they entered a USM building. There is much more going on here than USM faculty and a dysfunctional Hattiesburg community. There must be something in it for the rest of the universities and the Northern part of the state. I am not a native of Mississippi. Until recently, I found it the best place I had ever lived. Now I would be happy to see Hattiesburg in my rear view mirror for the last time. It is your state, tell why this is happening.

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Seeker

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Cossack

If I knew why the college board was doing what they are, I would be shouting from the rooftops. I have no idea. None of it makes sense to me. The Board has always hated USM, that's no secret. The Board is made up of MSU and UM alumni who will always have hatred for USM. That's just the way it is. They fear a strong USM, because a strong USM in the most economically powerful, rapidly growing part of the state will become the flag-ship University of the state. That's all I know.

We don't have a true representative on the Board, our USM alum, Robin Whatshername, is controlled by the Sanderson Farm Chicken money lobby. She's looking out for her boss' alma mater - M$U.

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Seeker

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I have always told you guys the head of the Snake is the IHL.

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Wrong side of the tracks

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quote:
Originally posted by: Seeker
"Cossack If I knew why the college board was doing what they are, I would be shouting from the rooftops."
As I recall, Seeker, in the past you presented yourself and your family as "old Hattiesburg." Ask a family member. Maybe they know something.

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Cossack

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Seeker,

So neither of us knows why this began nor why it continues. We also do not know how long it will continue. What I think we can agree on is that this mess has occurred for reasons other than the faculty at USM. It is not that they are worse or different from faculty at Ole Miss or State. It is not that they are more liberal, in reality in comparison to the national standard we have far fewer faculty who are nut cases than most universities. Once SFT was made President, it would not matter who the faculty were, there would have been the troubles that have occurred. Indeed, I think that there are university faculty in other schools throughout the US who would not try as hard as the faculty at USM to maintain a daily routine in their teaching duties so that students did not suffer. Lastly, faculty at USM, or other campus are not equipped to battle a bad President in any way but the way it has. Faculty are people whose daily activities are rather limited. They prepare for and teach classes. They do committee work that is necessary in a university, and they work on research that keeps them involved in their discipline. They are not organized to fight what is going on. I am proud that we have made the efforts we have, but in the end, we must depend on the good sense of the Board and the general public to support university education and to prevent debacles such has happen at USM.

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Robert Campbell

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I actually think there are some additional things that faculty members can do to fight administrative overreach--and  who is a more extreme case of administrative overreach than Shelby Thames?


But the power in the Mississippi state university system is ultimately in the hands of the Board, which still has no formal channel of communication with the faculty whatsoever.


And, of course, a Shelby Thames is going to call the faculty of any university lazy whiners.


Robert Campbell



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