Sun Herald 4/14/05 - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 14, 2005

Sun Herald 4/14/05

Date: Apr 14, 2005

Ah me, and who will tell this same audience that to whatever extent universities are "economic machines," they represent a slow-growth economy and not a get-rich-quick scheme?

Jameela

Date: Apr 14, 2005

If I am not mistaken, univeristies that are economic drivers are also top-notch, well-rounded universities. Do these people not understand that?!!

Date: Apr 14, 2005

An impediment to recruiting high technology companies to Mississippi may be the significantly lower than average percentage of college graduates but it is not the only impediment. Not to divert the focus in stating the obvious but quality K-12 education lays the foundation for quality higher education. There are no shortcuts.

Date: Apr 14, 2005

Isn't it going to be sorta difficult to turn MS universities into "economic development machines" (or whatever ridiculous SFT "phrase du jour") when the state is going bankrupt and the state legislature doesn't seem to care enough to pass a budget during regular sessions? I can't imagine that industries are going to want to relocate to any state where education is given such a low priority.

It makes me so sad for my home state...

Truth

Date: Apr 14, 2005

Has the text, Joy at Work, been mentioned on the board recently? Here's one link to a synopsis:

http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/main_shopping.jsp?mt=a&n=0&coe=0&oidPath=0%3A-23542%3A-23587%3A-37581%3A-37623%3A-41922%3A920651.

The text apparently speaks to an increasingly touted success model that is diametrically opposed to what is being pushed at USM.

Jameela

Date: Apr 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
"Has the text, Joy at Work, been mentioned on the board recently? Here's one link to a synopsis: http://www.samsclub.com/eclub/main_shopping.jsp?mt=a&n=0&coe=0&oidPath=0%3A-23542%3A-23587%3A-37581%3A-37623%3A-41922%3A920651. The text apparently speaks to an increasingly touted success model that is diametrically opposed to what is being pushed at USM. Jameela"

At USM, the only person having "fun" at work is Shelby, and that's because he's delusional.

Date: Apr 14, 2005

Methinks SFT is delusional in another way as well: USM is very much a Johnny-come-lately to the realization that the Gulf Coast is growing rapidly economically. Tulane realized this years ago and now has a thriving satellite presence on the coast. Someone needs to tell Shelby that people and jobs are already flocking to the coast and they will continue to do so whether or not USM does anything at all. Casinos and tourism are driving this growth - not USM. Shelby is obviously seeking to "cash in" on this growth while using rhetoric that makes him/USM sound like they had something to do with economic expansion down there - they didn't and their future impact will be negligible on the entire area's economic fortunes.

Date: Apr 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
"Has the text, Joy at Work, been mentioned on the board recently?

We in the private comuunity much prefer the classic "Joy of Sex."

Date: Apr 14, 2005

At a local business club meeting a few weeks ago, the speaker was the owner of a genetics laboratory. He said when he advertises for lab technicians, a hundred USM biological sciences graduates apply. Most of them are selling shoes or working construction [he said] because there are no good jobs for biology majors in south Mississippi.

Two weeks later a USM person told us that USM needs to educate more technicans to fill all the jobs open in south Mississippi.

????

Date: Apr 14, 2005

All the references in the SH article and others on this

board to the "rapid" growth of the coast are taking the

claims of the SH, SFT and others at face value.

Don't we know better by now? Saying it's so does not

make is so. Let's look at the facts.

Between February 2001 and February 2005, the coast

(defined as the Gulfport-Biloxi MSA) added 400 net new

jobs, or an average annual rate of growth of .35% or one-third

of one percent (www.bls.gov).

Between February 2004 and Februry 2005, a total of /600

jobs were added in this MSA, a growth of .5% (one half of one percent).

Mississippi grew by 1.4 % at the same time. Jackson MSA grew

three times faster than Gulfport-Biloxi over the same time (04-05)

if you use employment as a measure of growth.

Seems like the "flocking to the cost" ain't so much flocking after all.

Pirate.

Date: Apr 14, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reads on Beaches
"At a local business club meeting a few weeks ago, the speaker was the owner of a genetics laboratory. He said when he advertises for lab technicians, a hundred USM biological sciences graduates apply. Most of them are selling shoes or working construction [he said] because there are no good jobs for biology majors in south Mississippi. Two weeks later a USM person told us that USM needs to educate more technicans to fill all the jobs open in south Mississippi."

We sell dreams. Didn't you know that?

Date: Apr 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reads on Beaches
"At a local business club meeting a few weeks ago, the speaker was the owner of a genetics laboratory. He said when he advertises for lab technicians, a hundred USM biological sciences graduates apply. Most of them are selling shoes or working construction [he said] because there are no good jobs for biology majors in south Mississippi. Two weeks later a USM person told us that USM needs to educate more technicans to fill all the jobs open in south Mississippi. ????"

It's hard to do much employment-wise with only a B.S. in Biology. Most of these folks would have to be trained from scratch as lab techs. An undergrad degree in Biology is a vastly different animal than lab tech certification. I'd suggest the shoe salesmen and construction workers consider earning a masters and/or take education courses preparatory to acquiring a teaching credential.

By the way, are there really a number of job openings for "technicians" in south Mississippi? What kind of jobs, and what kind of technicians? Without knowing details, I'd think the many excellent junior colleges would be filling the need for technical training.

Date: Apr 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Some Beach
"What kind of jobs, and what kind of technicians? Without knowing details, I'd think the many excellent junior colleges would be filling the need for technical training."

This is an excellent point. Currently, students on the Coast can get two-year AAS degrees in computer networking, computer security, telecommunications, biotechnology, logistics management & database administration in addition to "older" technical programs in fields such as electronics, allied health (AD nursing, radiologic tech, respiratory tech, etc), drafting/design & marketing through the community college. Don't be surprised if MGCCC rolls out a program to train 2-year nanotechnology technicians in the near future.

If the goal is to put some technicians on the job market quickly to support economic developmentation, the community colleges are much better positioned than the universities. Managers & designers obviously need more than 2-year degrees, but a great many employers are going to bring those folks in from elsewhere during a start-up.

Of course, community colleges are designated as the primary workforce training providers for OJT in this state, too.

A small but significant number of the students enrolled in 2-year technical programs are people who already have college degrees or have reverse-transferred from 4-year schools, or are training for a second (or third or fourth) career. This trend is projected to increase.

Date: Apr 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
" This is an excellent point. Currently, students on the Coast can get two-year AAS degrees in computer networking, computer security, telecommunications, biotechnology, logistics management & database administration in addition to "older" technical programs in fields such as electronics, allied health (AD nursing, radiologic tech, respiratory tech, etc), drafting/design & marketing through the community college. Don't be surprised if MGCCC rolls out a program to train 2-year nanotechnology technicians in the near future. If the goal is to put some technicians on the job market quickly to support economic developmentation, the community colleges are much better positioned than the universities. Managers & designers obviously need more than 2-year degrees, but a great many employers are going to bring those folks in from elsewhere during a start-up. Of course, community colleges are designated as the primary workforce training providers for OJT in this state, too. A small but significant number of the students enrolled in 2-year technical programs are people who already have college degrees or have reverse-transferred from 4-year schools, or are training for a second (or third or fourth) career. This trend is projected to increase. "

It seems to be the same old problem between education and training. Universities are designed to educate, but the job market needs only trained personnel. The way SFT is trying to increase enrollment is by offering training at the expense of education. He claims that USM can do both, but the evidence says otherwise. Students are unmotived to study for an "education" and have become very shortsighted. "If you can't show me how I can make a buck with it NOW, I won't waste time studing it."

THe original poster said people with B.S. degrees in Biology were applying for jobs as technicians (didn't say what kind, but I assume something in the bio-medical fields) because they were "selling shoes" etc.

Date: Apr 16, 2005

I agree about the difference in "education" & "training." You might note that I intentionally used the verb "train" rather than "educate" in my post. When we talk about technicians, we aren't talking about "educated" personnel -- that's the domain of engineers, designers & managers, really -- we are talking about people who have job-specific training.

Were I a BS in biology who found myself selling shoes because I lacked the technical training, I'd hop to a community college & knock out a 2-year AAS degree in about 3 semesters (since I would already have the core academic requirements) to get the "certs" that I needed to get a technician's job. At that point, I'd have a resumé� that would be considerably more marketable that a basic AAS or a basic BS.

BS + certification in 5 years. Result: a person with "education" beyond that expected for an associate degree but with the "training" beyond that expected for a baccalaureate.

And of course, 3 extra semesters at a community college would cost about the same as one extra semester at a university. I mention this, because I can see universities wanting to tack a 5th year on to a BS degree for "certification level"...

Hmm... Maybe we have it all backwards. Maybe students should get their BS degrees first & then attend a technical "finishing school"

Date: Apr 16, 2005

Interesting ideas, Invictus. Now go sell it to SFT. I can see it now, "Get you B.S. at USM and then go to G.C.C.C. instead of grad school." What a matriculation plan!

Date: Apr 16, 2005

There is always this sad oversupply of biology and chemistry majors. The 4-years suck them in with dreams of medical school and very few of them make it. It's almost as bad as college athletics. What's a biology or chemistry major with a 2.8 going to do? University towns are full of these poor kids. The fact that few schools offer any career guidance to the kids that obviously aren't going to make it after their 2nd year is shameful.

Possibly related to this is SFTs management style. The better-quality chemistry majors that don't make the cut into medical school wander off to get M.A.s and Ph.D.s. This creates a third-world like labor market. Any academic opening in chemistry means a flood of quality applicants. The boss is then free to create a horror-story work environment and get away with it. This also creates a situation where you can hire people you "like" and get away with it. There are so many good people available that a boss becomes free to hire sycophants and not suffer the loss of productivity that usually follows such actions. I've heard the operation SFT used to run referred to as a "high tech sweat shop."

Does any of this sound familiar?

Date: Apr 16, 2005

Great Idea Invictus but the problem with it is that the only thing ST knows is polymer science and has sold his idea for a work force to go with it to politicians and business friends. It would come closer if you tried to sell ST on getting a B.S. degree at USM and then a Polymer Science degree at USM. The only problem with my idea is that ST is tunnel visioned and would not know how to go about being clever enough to turn the idea around to a workable plan. It wouldn't take much but that is the problem with being tunnel visioned.

Date: Apr 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"I agree about the difference in "education" & "training." You might note that I intentionally used the verb "train" rather than "educate" in my post. When we talk about technicians, we aren't talking about "educated" personnel -- that's the domain of engineers, designers & managers, really -- we are talking about people who have job-specific training.

Were I a BS in biology who found myself selling shoes because I lacked the technical training, I'd hop to a community college & knock out a 2-year AAS degree in about 3 semesters (since I would already have the core academic requirements) to get the "certs" that I needed to get a technician's job. At that point, I'd have a resumé� that would be considerably more marketable that a basic AAS or a basic BS.

BS + certification in 5 years. Result: a person with "education" beyond that expected for an associate degree but with the "training" beyond that expected for a baccalaureate.

And of course, 3 extra semesters at a community college would cost about the same as one extra semester at a university. I mention this, because I can see universities wanting to tack a 5th year on to a BS degree for "certification level"...

Hmm... Maybe we have it all backwards. Maybe students should get their BS degrees first & then attend a technical "finishing school"
"

Vict, this is actually the path a relative of mine took some years back. Had a B.A. (yes, not a B.S.) in geography, no desire to do grad work. Degree was essentially useless. Went to State Tech in Memphis, got an AA in some computer area, and when the county went into some huge geographical computer project, bingo! There he was -- but neither degree alone would have done the trick. I think a lot of people would be better off to take this kind of track instead of grad school, unless they're just eaten up with love of scholarship.

Date: Apr 16, 2005

I too have a relative with an undergraduate degree who was making a fairly good living driving a truck while taking computer tech courses on the side. Armed with the the completely unrelated college degree and the tech certification, he's landed a great computer networking job with plenty of upside. Could this be a trend?