Shared Governance, the Thames way! - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Shared Governance, the Thames way!

Date: Apr 13, 2005

How refreshing. FUD early in the morning.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

It is a little too early for science fiction. While it would be nice to hear another student say that they admired our president it is not what I am hearing. In fact, it is too early to repeat what I am hearing.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Alert CNN! Apparently pigs are now flying at USM!

Date: Apr 13, 2005

FUD Snowball: Is that a pig or a bull?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

I would say I pretty much agree with the first part of the original post in this thread. Students are being supported and consulted unlike ever before. We are finally able to have a voice and get things done.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Student memory is short -- almost by definition. Most come and go in four years or less. It could be that current students do have more opportunity for input than at times in the past; but one should not assume that students have had no opportunity for input under prior administrations.

It was a wholly student led initiative that resulted in the naming of McCarty Hall. Truth be told, I suspect that the university administration and others would have liked to save the "naming opportunity" for a big donor, not for recognition of a dead donor who could give nothing else.

How many current students know it was "their" idea to name the dorm? How many current students even know who Oseola McCarty was?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Senator: Since you are able to get things done, I would appreciate it if you would put in a word for the library and some new books. My concerns are not with the frills but are more centered around learning. The book shortage is a real hindrance in getting what I came to a University for - an education.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

In just a few short weeks, we'll be in a situation where a majority of the student population was not even here when Glamser and Stringer began their last academic year at USM. By then most students will never even have heard of them.

Regardless of your opinion of Thames Watcher's post, this part of it at least is true.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Students are not customers.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Thames Watcher
" There is less and less angst about Thames among the student population. More and more students are speaking out that he is a good President for the University. In just a few short weeks, we'll be in a situation where a majority of the student population was not even here when Glamser and Stringer began their last academic year at USM. By then most students will never even have heard of them. Some members of the IHL Board knows these shifts are occurring and they are planning to make something of it when the time is right. The next round of Warren Paving putcsch meetings will also be geared toward organizing the student population. All the Oak Grove based family/business supporters of SFT are about to organize their own army of kids to fight the liberal faculty establishment."

The fact remains all of these students are running the risk of receiving a worthless diploma because of Shelby Thames.

Robert Campbell

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Thames Watcher
"... In just a few short weeks, we'll be in a situation where a majority of the student population was not even here when Glamser and Stringer began their last academic year at USM. By then most students will never even have heard of them. ...."

And this, Thames Watcher, is exactly why Dr Crofts (when considering the inputs from the different constititents) should put less weight on the opinions of the uninformed students. Yes, take their input, but keep in mind that many who do remember can be "bought off" from thinking just by increasing the SGA budget or giving another holiday or opening another business on campus to take their money.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"Student memory is short -- almost by definition. Most come and go in four years or less. It could be that current students do have more opportunity for input than at times in the past; but one should not assume that students have had no opportunity for input under prior administrations. It was a wholly student led initiative that resulted in the naming of McCarty Hall. Truth be told, I suspect that the university administration and others would have liked to save the "naming opportunity" for a big donor, not for recognition of a dead donor who could give nothing else. How many current students know it was "their" idea to name the dorm? How many current students even know who Oseola McCarty was?"

And student perceptions of "fairness" are typically based on what benefits them. So if they're getting payoffs from the admin., of course the admin. is wonderful and fair.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: disgusted student
"Senator: Since you are able to get things done, I would appreciate it if you would put in a word for the library and some new books. My concerns are not with the frills but are more centered around learning. The book shortage is a real hindrance in getting what I came to a University for - an education."

Bravo!

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"The fact remains all of these students are running the risk of receiving a worthless diploma because of Shelby Thames.

Robert Campbell"

Bingo!

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Outside Observer
"And student perceptions of "fairness" are typically based on what benefits them. So if they're getting payoffs from the admin., of course the admin. is wonderful and fair."

Isn't there some egocentricity to most people's definitions of fairness? Aren't faculty this way some, or are you saying students are a bad lot in this regard (they are anomalies)?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Thames Watcher
"I know many of you prefer shared governance, where the President makes decisions after consulting with faculty. You might not see that kind of sg at USM, but another kind does exist . . . . . More and more decisions made at the top are happening after consultation with student groups. This is a form of shared governance . . . . . All the Oak Grove based family/business supporters of SFT are about to organize their own army of kids to fight the liberal faculty establishment."

And I suppose you believe that the inmates at Parchman should be an integral part of the decisions that are made in that institution? You, my friend, seem to be the "liberal."

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: yes man
"Isn't there some egocentricity to most people's definitions of fairness? Aren't faculty this way some, or are you saying students are a bad lot in this regard (they are anomalies)?"

By definition, students are still developing their abilities to reason logically.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" By definition, students are still developing their abilities to reason logically."

e.g., most faculty in COAL think it unfair that faculty salaries aren't equalized across the institution, but most faculty in COST disagree.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Thames Watcher
"we'll be in a situation where a majority of the student population was not even here when Glamser and Stringer began their last academic year at USM. By then most students will never even have heard of them."

Those two men will be remembered every time someone passes the Liberal Arts building and sees the name "Stringer-Glamser Hall." Their names will endure much in the same way as we recall President Cook when we pass the Cook Library, President McCain when we pass the McCain Library, President Lucas when we pass the Lucas Administration Building, Governor Johnson when we pass the Johnson Science Tower, Kenard and Washington when we pass the Student Services Building, or President Thames when we hastily pass the Thames Polymer Science Building.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Right of center
"And I suppose you believe . . . " "

You know, this has to be among the worst possible ways to start a sentence -- especially when the speaker goes on to draw a conclusion based on his or her own supposition.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: yes man
"e.g., most faculty in COAL think it unfair that faculty salaries aren't equalized across the institution, but most faculty in COST disagree."

Sorry, yes man, but I missed that survey. Would you please post the results of the survey that allows you to conclude that over 50% of CoAL faculty think this way? Oh, and don't forget the survey of the CoST faculty. Funny, I don't recall participating in that survey. Wonder why?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

Sorry. Here are the results.

Faculty salary equalization across disciplines: fair/unfair

CoAL --- 71.9%/28.1%

CoST --- 26.3%/73.7%

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Gnome Chompski
"You know, this has to be among the worst possible ways to start a sentence -- especially when the speaker goes on to draw a conclusion based on his or her own supposition. "

Gnolme C., its difficult to tell from your post whether you are pretending to be a logician or a grammarian; or just pretending to be clever. I fully understood what Right of Center was saying.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Gnome Chompski
"You know, this has to be among the worst possible ways to start a sentence -- especially when the speaker goes on to draw a conclusion based on his or her own supposition. "

You think "You know" is a better way to begin a sentence? I knew someone who began or ended each sentence with "You know."

Date: Apr 13, 2005

In general, I think arguments pitting faculty against each other and particularly departments, schools and colleges against each other is not productive. It is pretty much a given that, for the most part, that those of us who teach in the liberal arts and arts are going to be at the lower end of the pay scale. Generally speaking, the top poets are payed less than the top CEOs. Even within our college these same inequties exist and even within departments. All of us are higher than someone -- and lower than someone else. And while I support the right of any individual to go after the highest paycheck he or she can get, I am not necessarily in favor of using divisive techniques that widen the fissures between salaried workers when there are much more pressing concerns that we all share in common.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

In fact, I'd also have to say that compared to some staff, even some staff who are in what seem to be som pretty responsbile positions, faculty pay in general seems pretty inequitable. I think a better cause for equity would be to attack that one.

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Speechless
"I knew someone who began or ended each sentence with "You know." "

He died.

(If you weren't an F&G groupie, just ignore this.)

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"In fact, I'd also have to say that compared to some staff, even some staff who are in what seem to be som pretty responsbile positions, faculty pay in general seems pretty inequitable. I think a better cause for equity would be to attack that one. "

Can you define "inequitable" in the case of faculty pay in general relative to some staff, as you used it above?

Date: Apr 13, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Yes Man
"Sorry. Here are the results. Faculty salary equalization across disciplines: fair/unfair CoAL --- 71.9%/28.1% CoST --- 26.3%/73.7% "

Oh, this is the survey with the results:

CoAL --- 71.9%/28.1% Number participating: 0

CoST --- 26.3%/73.7% Number participating: 0

No wonder I didn't see it.