Preliminary Williams Report - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Apr 1, 2005

Preliminary Williams Report

Date: Apr 1, 2005

Thanks for your information. However, whether it gets investigated may depend on whether or not Dr. Williams wants it to be investigated. Unless he agreed, I doubt any faculty body would take it on.

Date: Apr 1, 2005

Dr. Williams may be the faculty member/administrator most universally liked in and out of the business school. His resignation was certainly not "forced" - just more #$&@ from those who like to stir the crackpot-filled CoB crockpot.

Date: Apr 1, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stir it up
"Dr. Williams may be the faculty member/administrator most universally liked in and out of the business school. His resignation was certainly not "forced" - just more #$&@ from those who like to stir the crackpot-filled CoB crockpot. "

Stir itup, you are absolutely correct.

Date: Apr 1, 2005

Stir It Up....great song by Delbert McClinton!

Date: Apr 2, 2005

kick.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: BSU Officer
"Hello everyone. I hope I am welcome to join this site and give you some information. I am an officer in the BSU here at USM. I know many of you who read this site are faculty and will be interested in some events I have to talk about. The BSU met on Wednesday evening after a two day investigation of Dr. Williams resignation. We were not able to schedule a meeting with Dr. Williams but We were all relieved to not to find any evidence of racism in Dr. Alvin Williams resignation. We did speak with a number of people in the college, and most had no information at all to give us. But we did collect statements that said that he was respected and liked. We did uncover some testimony that said his resignation was not as simple as what people are saying around school. At least 2 people we talked with and people we have great faith in said to us that Dr. Williams resignation was forced. Nobody we spoke with was able to speak in the open about this. I am speaking for the BSU in asking that a faculty body take up this investigation. Since we believe that some people in the college of business will speak in the open about it to a faculty organization. We will release our investigation and details to what group takes this on. Please consider this for us."

It's rather ironic that an organization limited essentially to one race would be ferreting out "racism." I wonder how the White Students Union would go over. To determine whether the resignation was "forced" and whether an "investigation " is needed,you might want to do something basic and simple like asking Dr. Williams.He could certainly answer those questions.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

troll alert.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: more later
"troll alert."

To whom are you referring? Equality for all? Stir it up?

I'm quite certian that you are not referring to the person who started this thread, BSU officer.

If you wish to yell "TROLL" please notate whom you are flagging. Thank you.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

What was wrong with my post????

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Equality for All
"It's rather ironic that an organization limited essentially to one race would be ferreting out "racism." I wonder how the White Students Union would go over."

When I saw the first post in this thread I thought BSU referred to Baptist Student Union. That's what BSU means on college campuses everywhere and has for well over half a century. From your post, however, I gather it also means Black Student Union. I'm surprised that one campus organization would adopt the name of another long established campus organization. I have no intention in getting involved in the Williams controversy, or debating whether or not two campus organizations should exist with the same name. I am simply making an observation.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: Wesley Newman Hillel
"When I saw the first post in this thread I thought BSU referred to Baptist Student Union. That's what BSU means on college campuses everywhere and has for well over half a century. From your post, however, I gather it also means Black Student Union. I'm surprised that one campus organization would adopt the name of another long established campus organization. I have no intention in getting involved in the Williams controversy, or debating whether or not two campus organizations should exist with the same name. I am simply making an observation. "

"That's what BSU means on college campuses everywhere and has for well over half a century."

Actually WNH -- I'm from Yankee land and where I come from BSU stands for Black Student Union. It took me a few weeks of being back in the Southland to realize BSU also stood for Baptist Student Union.

Guess my colleagues up north jusyt don't know any better.

It all depends on your perspective.

And the bBlack Student Union hardly "adopted" the "name" of the Baptist student Union. They simply have the same first initials leading to the same acroym.

I'll bet there are other "USM's" in the country as well . . .

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I'll bet there are other "USM's" in the country as well . . . "

Which is why we were all supposed to rally around the Southern Miss branding.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" Actually WNH -- I'm from Yankee land and where I come from BSU stands for Black Student Union. It took me a few weeks of being back in the Southland to realize BSU also stood for Baptist Student Union. Guess my colleagues up north jusyt don't know any better. It all depends on your perspective. And the bBlack Student Union hardly "adopted" the "name" of the Baptist student Union. They simply have the same first initials leading to the same acroym. I'll bet there are other "USM's" in the country as well . . . "

Stephen, there is no doubt that every aspect of your post correct. Nonetheless, it can be confusing for many, just as it was confusing to me. I read several posts on this thread under the misperception that the thread was initiated by an officer of the Baptist Student Union. And then it dawned on me that BSU means something else. So now I have learned something new!

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I'll bet there are other "USM's" in the country as well . . . "

The University of Southern Methodist

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Wesley Newman Hillel
"Stephen, there is no doubt that every aspect of your post correct. Nonetheless, it can be confusing for many, just as it was confusing to me. I read several posts on this thread under the misperception that the thread was initiated by an officer of the Baptist Student Union. And then it dawned on me that BSU means something else. So now I have learned something new! "

Fair enough -- but I'd not have responded had your post not gone on to initimate that somehow the Black Student Union had "borrowed" the identity of the Baptist Student Union.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Stir it up
"Which is why we were all supposed to rally around the Southern Miss branding."

Yes, after SFT and his hench-crew are finished, the University of Southern Maine will be chagrined to remember that they "traded" the WUSM-FM call letters to us, in a three-way trade with Southeastern Massachusetts University.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" Fair enough -- but I'd not have responded had your post not gone on to initimate that somehow the Black Student Union had "borrowed" the identity of the Baptist Student Union. "

I'm sorry you misinterpreted my post, but sometimes a set of three initials does take on a particular meaning unto its own when used over an extended period of time, even if initially intended to stand for three specific words.

During the great depression WPA had a special meaning, for football fans NFL has a special meaning, during WWII RAF had a special meaning, UFO still has a special meaning, and on college campuses BSU had a special meaning for over half a century.

I never said that the Black Student Union "borrowed" the identity of the Baptist Student Union. I said that it was confusing for me when I read the first post on this thread because the term BSU had another meaning for over half of a century on college campuses.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Wesley Newman Hillel
" I'm sorry you misinterpreted my post, but sometimes a set of three initials does take on a particular meaning unto its own when used over an extended period of time, even if initially intended to stand for three specific words. During the great depression WPA had a special meaning, for football fans NFL has a special meaning, during WWII RAF had a special meaning, UFO still has a special meaning, and on college campuses BSU had a special meaning for over half a century. I never said that the Black Student Union "borrowed" the identity of the Baptist Student Union. I said that it was confusing for me when I read the first post on this thread because the term BSU had another meaning for over half of a century on college campuses. "

I don't mean to make a big point of this. But when you say "colleges" all over the country" -- you imply that this is a nearly universal standard of some sort. Likening the university of the meanoing of "BSU" to the WPA is the same. Most Americans will readily identify the WPA if they know anything about American History. I do not agree that most Americans would be able to equally identify "BSU" as "belonging" to the Baptist Student Union. Baptists are not as visible entity in all areas of the country or on all college campuses.

Saying, as you did in your first post:

"I'm surprised that one campus organization would adopt the name of another long established campus organization"

seems to indicate that the Baptist Student Union somehow had a patent not merely on its name, but on the acronym BSU and that the "Black Student Union" decided to use that acrnym even though the Baptist Student Union was already uising it.

My point is that in other parts of the country (or perhaps universities where the religious student unions aren't so visible) the notion that if I heard BSU I would automatically assume it to be the Baptist student union is false because the BSU is not as widely known in some areas as it is in this region.

That YOU might have been confused by the acroym is fair -- there are not patents on acronyms. In this part of the country BSU is probably the one many people would first associate as the acronym. But to then universalize that experience as though it was a national one simply is incorrect.

In other areas of the country, a majority of people would not necessarily assume that the BSU (Black Student Union) had "adopted the name of another long established campus organization."

Incidently, BSU's (Black Student Unions) have been around at least as long as my undergraduate experience (1969). My suspicion is that at the time the Black Student Unions came into being, the Baptist Student Unions might not have been quite as widespread. I went to a Methodist affiliated college. We had a Methodist Organization, A Jewish student Union, a Catholic Student Union, and a number of non-religious unions, of which one was an early version of the BSU. At that time, there was no BSU (Baptist Union) of which I am aware.

Sorry to be pedantic about this --

Date: Apr 2, 2005

correction

" Likening the universality of . . . "

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote: "
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I don't mean to make a big point of this......Sorry to be pedantic about this "

Stephen, I'm not eligible to be a member of the Baptist Student Union or the Black Student Union so let me say that I really don't give a filp about what name either of those organizations adopt.

I can say with assurance, however, that the term BSU on college campuses this side of the Maxon-Dixon is generally interpreted to mean Baptist Student Union in the way the Wesley Foundation is generally interpreted to be the Methodist student group, Hillel is interpreted to be Jewish, and Newman is interpreted to be Catholic. I don't know what any of those terms mean in New York or California. But we're not in New York or California.

I can also say with assurance that the Baptist Student Union existed long before your college undergraduate days.

And I can say with assurance that when somebody identifes themself as an "Officer in the BSU" with provides no other identification somebody is going to be confused.

What I can not say is what the Black Student Union was called before the term black took the place of the term African-American. The AASU? And before that?

This is not an important topic, but postings have been slow today so I suppose a little education is not such a bad thing - for either of us. Thanks for teaching me something I did not previously know.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Wesley Newman Hillel
" And I can say with assurance that when somebody identifes themself as an "Officer in the BSU" with provides no other identification somebody is going to be confused. . . . This is not an important topic, but postings have been slow today so I suppose a little education is not such a bad thing - for either of us. "

When I left Mississippi in the late 1960's headed for Kansas, I thought BSU meant Baptist Student Union. I arrived on campus up there only to learn that "BSU" meant Black Student Union. They had a Baptist Student Union, but it did not use the acronym because to do so would have been confusing; everybody (in that world) understood the B stood for Black.

It took me longer to read this thread than it took to adjust to the difference. But I was 19 then.

Date: Apr 2, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
" When I left Mississippi in the late 1960's headed for Kansas, I thought BSU meant Baptist Student Union. "

ram, your post gives a new meaning to the phrase "Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore!"

Date: Apr 3, 2005

I swear, the people on this board would argue with a fence post. Some of us like to argue just for the sake of argument. And, SJ, "pedantic" doesn't begin to describe that post of yours.

Clearly we don't have nearly the trouble at USM that we used to have when we can have people spending their time arguing about the meaning of the letter "B." Might I suggest a new organization be formed on campus just for people for whom this is interesting and who want to argue about air...call it the B!tch Student Union (but open it to faculty as well).

For those who can't figure it out, this post is in jest and poking a little fun at the posters...don't go flaming over nothing...

Date: Apr 3, 2005

I hate to enter this fray, but...

Where I come from the BSU has always stood for the Business Student Union, and then there's my friends at Boise State University.

Is it time to drag out the Bored Games???

Date: Apr 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I'll bet there are other "USM's" in the country as well . . . "

All of these discussions over BSU are detracting from the original post. I do think the BSU should try to talk with Dr. Williams, if possible.

However, I remember a female friend wearing a USM t-shirt in another state when a man walked up and said, "Sweetheart, you are just about the prettiest Marine I've ever seen!"

Date: Apr 3, 2005

talking to dr. williams is not advisable. just be patient.

Date: Apr 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USMC
" All of these discussions over BSU are detracting from the original post. I do think the BSU should try to talk with Dr. Williams, if possible. " "

I agree that Dr. Williams should be consulted, and I read the post from "emerald" to be patient. But sometimes students need to have answers.

Maybe, the BSU should take it's concerns to the (1) Faculty Senate (2) Media (Student Printz and HA) (3) Dr. Thames, since HIS door is always OPEN

Date: Apr 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: emerald
"talking to dr. williams is not advisable. just be patient."

I'm not sure where emerald is going here, but I think he/she might have the same info I have. Talking to Williams is a nonstarter. But, do have patience cause he was forced to resign in a deal made with the dome. The BSU was right to look into this and now the facsenators must take the mantle. From what I know, this could be the straw that breaks the camel but some faculty group must take it up. My advice would be to keep the BSU involved --- they will be a good partner in this.

Date: Apr 4, 2005

IF this were true, it would require the participation of Dr. Williams in a scheme by the dome to weaken the College of Business. Anyone who knows the integrity of Dr. Williams would find this hard to believe. Dr. Williams could have the dean's job, the provost's job, and maybe even the interim presidency for the asking so thinking he could be bought or threatened by this administration is ludicrous.

As I posted above, "His resignation was certainly not 'forced' - just more #$&@ from those who like to stir the crackpot-filled CoB crockpot."