Randy Price and Co. - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Randy Price and Co.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Why do you need to know? Most of us probably don't know who he is.*
Just the mere fact that someone attended does not make them an opponent -- it's what they do from here on out. If they come out publicly for Thames, they need to present some real reasons (and please, better reasons than the meaningliss, microscopic enrollment increase, or the continuing work on Horace Fleming's buildings. Or band trips.)

*Is his name Randy Price or is that just a store name?

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Third Witch,

If a person went to the meeting under the premise that it was "pro-USM, not pro-Shelby," then they were disabused of that notion rather quickly, from the eyewitness account posted here.

If an attendee disagrees with the goings-on at that meeting, then they need to come out and say so. Otherwise, they are not speaking up for what's right by faculty standards.

The faculty at USM have let people fence-sit for too long. It's time to make them reveal their position: pro-Thames or pro-USM Faculty.

I wish there was a sign to hang for pro-faculty businesses to hang in their windows.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

So which side are you on, Big Blue?

RC

Date: Mar 18, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Big Blue
"I wish there was a sign to hang for pro-faculty businesses to hang in their windows."

How about this one? It would symbolize that there's something squirrelly about the Dome Gnome:

Date: Mar 18, 2005

The side I was on from the start. I just didn't use the right "secret handshake" apparently.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think my stance is pretty well known. However, as a former business owner -- if I had been invited to that meeting, attended, got the picture and left, I might well have gone back to my shop and resumed my doings. I would hate to think that former customers would turn on me because I didnt' "do something" -- and I'm not talking about Mixon, or Warren, or those people, I'm talking about Joe Shopkeeper. What is it that we want him to do? If all I had to go by was what I read in the paper, how would I have enough information to really be able to evaluate all that was said? And even if I rejected it (of course being me, I would've written a letter to the paper) but I think a lot of people just went back to their businesses and resumed worrying about making payroll.
I stay fairly on top of things and hear a lot of information, but I still get blindsided by things, and sometimes don't grasp the full implications of certain situations. Not everybody has Robert Campbell and USM Sympathizer and Amy and Stephen to explain things!!
Let's give most of these people a break. We have to live here with them long after SFT is gone. When they do write their pro-SFT letter, that's the time to take them to task.

Date: Mar 18, 2005

"Why should I quit? I'm still havin' fun!"

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Shelby, sometime last summer:

"Yawn . . . these SACS regulations are enough to put me to sleep!"

Date: Mar 18, 2005

Maybe it will surprise some people, but I agree with LVN on this one.

Attendance at the Warren Paving Company meeting means very little.

Organizing it means a lot. And dping that the organizers were exhorting everyone in attendance to do means a lot.

Robert Campbell

Date: Mar 18, 2005

The SACS visitation team arrives on campus:

Date: Mar 18, 2005

And doing...

Date: Mar 19, 2005

Pro-Thames - Pro-Faculty?

How about those of us who are Pro-University of Southern Mississippi, and see faults with both sides? What should I hang from the windows of my business? Thames is far from perfect, and his time as an effective leader has long since passed. Some faculty members are little better.

That's my feeling, should my business be burned at the stake with Courtesy Ford? I guess so from the tone on this board.

Constantly lashing out at the business community won't win you any friends. Before reading this board, my heart was much softer towards the faculty than it is now, because I see my friends and myself in the business community being constantly attacked.

You are not winning friends and influencing people.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Some faculty members are little better."

Kudzu King,

Just what specifically have the faculty members done that displeases you?

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Pro-Thames - Pro-Faculty? How about those of us who are Pro-University of Southern Mississippi, and see faults with both sides? What should I hang from the windows of my business? Thames is far from perfect, and his time as an effective leader has long since passed. Some faculty members are little better. That's my feeling, should my business be burned at the stake with Courtesy Ford? I guess so from the tone on this board. Constantly lashing out at the business community won't win you any friends. Before reading this board, my heart was much softer towards the faculty than it is now, because I see my friends and myself in the business community being constantly attacked. You are not winning friends and influencing people. "

As an outsider...I see plenty of attacking coming from the business community toward the USM faculty...

Date: Mar 19, 2005

Kudzu King,

Have you considered the possibility that Big Blue, who was calling for the signs in the windows, is a provocateur?

BB started making this suggestion only after being challenged as a troll.

How many of the regulars on this board have supported the sign-in-the-window suggestion?

All of that said, I think it's perfectly legitimate to expose supporters of Thames who apparently want him kept in power so he will keep steering USM contracts to them.

And a few of them have done terrible damage through their exercise of political influence. Bob Mixon almost certainly doesn't realize it, because of his utter ignorance of the way universities work, but he has been working to destroy USM for several years.

Robert Campbell

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Pro-Thames - Pro-Faculty? How about those of us who are Pro-University of Southern Mississippi, and see faults with both sides? What should I hang from the windows of my business? Thames is far from perfect, and his time as an effective leader has long since passed. Some faculty members are little better. That's my feeling, should my business be burned at the stake with Courtesy Ford? I guess so from the tone on this board. Constantly lashing out at the business community won't win you any friends. Before reading this board, my heart was much softer towards the faculty than it is now, because I see my friends and myself in the business community being constantly attacked. You are not winning friends and influencing people. "

Dear Poster-with-the-Cool-Nom,

I have also been dismayed at the denomination of "pro-faculty," since the (metaphorical) battle is not about people but about academic integrity. Dr. Thames is also a member of the faculty, for that matter.

RC has a good point--anonymous posters cannot be assumed to be faculty. I also agree with LVN that business owners have their own businesses to tend.

I do hope you understand that overworked and disenfranchised faculty members have been accused of being lazy, meddling malcontents by non-academics for years now, and in fact have demonstrated remarkable restraint in the face of the onslaught.

Under ordinary circumstances, I'd invite you to e-mail me privately so that we could talk seriously about how the faculty could make their case to the business community--or at the least where your business is and what wonderful goods/services you might offer (!)--but I hesitate to publish my non-university address on this board. Unless numerous secondhand reports are erroneous, I was pilloried by the organizers at the recent meeting. If you trust Andrea Hewitt to serve as intermediary--and I'm sure her promise never to divulge an identity can be trusted--you can contact me through her (truth@firethames.com) if you'd like.

Jameela

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Kudzu King
"Pro-Thames - Pro-Faculty? How about those of us who are Pro-University of Southern Mississippi, and see faults with both sides? What should I hang from the windows of my business? Thames is far from perfect, and his time as an effective leader has long since passed. Some faculty members are little better. That's my feeling, should my business be burned at the stake with Courtesy Ford? I guess so from the tone on this board. Constantly lashing out at the business community won't win you any friends. Before reading this board, my heart was much softer towards the faculty than it is now, because I see my friends and myself in the business community being constantly attacked. You are not winning friends and influencing people. "

KK,

I agree with you that "pro-faculty" is an inappropriate term. In moments of laziness, I have actually used it myself; I will try to refrain from using it in the future. I suppose I have used it as a short-hand term for "pro-the-people-(including-faculty,-staff,-and-students)-who-have-been-suffering-because-of-SFT-and-who-are-doing-their-best-to-preserve-the-integrity-of-USM). I will try to think of a shorter term that conveys these connotations more clearly. Maybe "The Resistance" would work.

As for the signs, I really do think that it's entirely appropriate for anti-Thames people to avoid doing business with business people who have come out strongly in favor of Thames. That's just the way capitalism works. I certainly would not want to build up the supply of capital of people who, directly or indirectly, have helped to destroy a fine university. Few of us on this board have EVER suggested that all business people are pro-Shelby or deserve scorn; in fact, a number of us have repeatedly tried to prevent the dispute from becoming a liberal-vs-conservative one or one that directs hostility toward the business community in general. For example, LVN (no friend of Shelby) has been repeatedly quite eloquent on these points.

There is a natural temptation by some posters to paint with a broad brush, especially when they read letters in the HA by business people comparing faculty to the inmates of a prison, or to whiny cry-babies, or to lazy loafers. They are also likely to be disturbed when they see that 300 local business people have been invited to what was obviously a pro-Shelby rally. Please try to remember that many of these posters have seen friends fired, demoted, spied upon, and publicly smeared for trying to defend the academic integrity of USM. Their emotions are understandably raw at the moment.

I will end by simply saying this: if you are any other member of the business community think that the anti-Shelby forces at USM are uniquely disturbed by the kinds of things Shelby has been doing, you are wrong. MOST faculty or staff members ANYWHERE would be extremely bothered by such actions and would be reacting in much the same way. This is why it will be extremely difficult for USM to recruit qualified faculty and staff, or to retain the best students, as long as Shelby Thames is President.

Thanks for listening.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Jameela Lares
"
Dear Poster-with-the-Cool-Nom,
I have also been dismayed at the denomination of "pro-faculty," since the (metaphorical) battle is not about people but about academic integrity. Dr. Thames is also a member of the faculty, for that matter.
RC has a good point--anonymous posters cannot be assumed to be faculty. I also agree with LVN that business owners have their own businesses to tend.
I do hope you understand that overworked and disenfranchised faculty members have been accused of being lazy, meddling malcontents by non-academics for years now, and in fact have demonstrated remarkable restraint in the face of the onslaught.
Under ordinary circumstances, I'd invite you to e-mail me privately so that we could talk seriously about how the faculty could make their case to the business community--or at the least where your business is and what wonderful goods/services you might offer (!)--but I hesitate to publish my non-university address on this board. Unless numerous secondhand reports are erroneous, I was pilloried by the organizers at the recent meeting. If you trust Andrea Hewitt to serve as intermediary--and I'm sure her promise never to divulge an identity can be trusted--you can contact me through her (truth@firethames.com) if you'd like.
Jameela"

Jameela, I'd be glad to serve as intermediary for you and Kudzu King...

Truth

Date: Mar 19, 2005

Campbell--

I'll not waste my time trying to help anyone here see the light. It's obvious that the faculty at USM isn't really interested in getting Thames out, or it wouldn't attack every outside idea as trollism.

Out.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

In other words, you're just here to stir up trouble, and not to engage in real conversation.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Big Blue
"Campbell-- I'll not waste my time trying to help anyone here see the light. It's obvious that the faculty at USM isn't really interested in getting Thames out, or it wouldn't attack every outside idea as trollism. Out."

BB,

I thought you got some pretty civil and constructive responses last night. I'm surprised by this response.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

Kudzu King,

The busniness community is doing itself far more damage than any faculty action ever could. Any business person that jumps on either side of a controversial issue without VERY careful consideration of the benefits and costs has very questionable judgement. Having grown up in a family business, the actions of some in the business community is beyond belief.

The catcalling of some of the posters here is unfortunate. It doesn't do much good and provokes the response you mentioned. It is mostly born of frustration and the desire to "do something", even if it is not prudent.

Some of the damage to the business community is that in the uncertain environment a reasonable response is just to quit doing business locally to the greatest extent possible. In most cases this is not some kind of "organized" thing but a way to avoid the whole "mess". Who wants to go to a mall, ANY store, or ANY restaurant and risk getting annoyed by some chance comment or having to lie about where you work and what you do to avoid having to deal with it?

Pretty soon the "faculty" will be composed of the invisible and the transients who won't really be part either of the university OR the community.

In the end the actions of the faculty and the business community probably don't matter much. However, the faculty has little or nothing to lose at this point. However, the business community has already lost a good bit and will lose a lot more. Since the losses are subtle and are occurring gradually, not many seem to notice. That's ok, it's very interesting to watch.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Erasmus
"Having grown up in a family business, the actions of some in the business community is beyond belief."

This is such a sensible and intelligent post that the business in question cannot possibly be Klumb Lumber.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

Erasmus,

Some very good points. From my standpoint, I not interested in trying to get others to take any action in regard to the anti faculty position of many of the business community. My focus has been on how I am responding. I leave it to others to determine what the critical point is that will motivate them to change their shopping and buying habits. Erasmus is right in his observation that individuals will drift away from shopping in certain businesses or even from shopping in the Hattiesburg SMSA.

One of the interesting aspects of the local business community is they appeal to customers with ads and slogans about being owned by home-town folks. Many complain about the outside chain stores taking business away from them. Yet it is these very same locally owned enterprises that are the most avid supporters of SFT and are anti faculty. I do not think that any of the chain operations have made any comments either way. They have wisely remained neutral.

Date: Mar 19, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Cossack
"Erasmus, Some very good points. From my standpoint, I not interested in trying to get others to take any action in regard to the anti faculty position of many of the business community. My focus has been on how I am responding. I leave it to others to determine what the critical point is that will motivate them to change their shopping and buying habits. Erasmus is right in his observation that individuals will drift away from shopping in certain businesses or even from shopping in the Hattiesburg SMSA. One of the interesting aspects of the local business community is they appeal to customers with ads and slogans about being owned by home-town folks. Many complain about the outside chain stores taking business away from them. Yet it is these very same locally owned enterprises that are the most avid supporters of SFT and are anti faculty. I do not think that any of the chain operations have made any comments either way. They have wisely remained neutral. "

Great post, Cossack. As I have said on a different thread, I don't see how anyone can NOT expect anti-Shelby faculty, staff, students, sympathizers, and their family and friends from directing their business away from businesses that adopt a blatantly pro-Shelby stance. This is not an "anti-business" position at all; it is just an "anti-pro-Shelby business position." As someone who has immense respect for all that has been accomplished by capitalism over the centuries (and, yes, as someone who is also aware of the flaws of capitalism, which nevertheless still seems better than any other economic system that has ever been tried), I can't comprehend how a vocally pro-Shelby businessperson could expect anti-Shelbyites to do anything BUT patronage other businesses if presented with a choice. To do so is not vindictive at all; it is merely common sense. Or am I missing something?