H.A.-Letter - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 15, 2005

H.A.-Letter

Date: Mar 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
"Criticism of USM misses the markhttp://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050315/OPINION03/503150331/1014/OPINION"

Invictus -- we need your expertise chill this guy. A letter to the ed would be nice perhaps. I esepcially love the following:

Probation is a regular occurrence for schools that are trying to advance with new techniques and programs. USM is advancing; it is working out the resultant glitches and it most certainly will have its SACS probation lifted at the end of the year when SACS returns.

Date: Mar 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" Invictus -- we need your expertise chill this guy. A letter to the ed would be nice perhaps. I esepcially love the following: Probation is a regular occurrence for schools that are trying to advance with new techniques and programs. USM is advancing; it is working out the resultant glitches and it most certainly will have its SACS probation lifted at the end of the year when SACS returns."

Or perhaps, a letter from Amy or Myron???????

Date: Mar 15, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Green Hornet
"Or perhaps, a letter from Amy or Myron???????"

I believe Myron is out of town.

Date: Mar 15, 2005

Also from SACS.ORG not sure why this was not part of the USM'S FAQ

What does Probation mean? Probation is the Commission’s most serious sanction, short of
loss of membership, and can be imposed on an institution for failure to correct deficiencies of
significant non-compliance with the Core Requirements or the Comprehensive Standards of the
Principles of Accreditation of the Commission, failure to make timely and significant progress
toward correcting the deficiencies, or failure to comply with Commission policies and procedures.
The imposition of Probation is an indication of the gravity of non-compliance with the Principles.
Probation may be imposed upon initial institutional review, depending on the judgment of the
Commission of the seriousness of the non-compliance or in the case of repeated violations
recognized by the Commission over a period of time. The maximum consecutive time that an
institution may be on Probation is two years. For additional information about sanctions, see page
two of the Commission’s policy entitled “Sanctions, Denial of Reaffirmation, and Removal from
Membership” (http://www.sacscoc.org/pdf/Sanction.pdf ).

Date: Mar 15, 2005

Unfortunately, Saucier opened the gate for Fagan by claiming that USM's probation was unique.

But Fagan's rationalization for USM's probation is preposterous.

I wonder whether it reflects the latest effort by the Mader machine.

Robert Campbell

Date: Mar 15, 2005

"The fact that I have this wooden leg is merely a by-productive of my innovative whale-hunting techniques."

-- Captain Ahab

Date: Mar 15, 2005

"The fact that my hand is missing shows that I am a creative thinker when it comes to hunting crocodiles."

-- Captain Hook

Date: Mar 15, 2005

"Yes, it's missing, but that's only a tribute to my innovative approach to being a husband."

-- John Wayne Bobbit

Date: Mar 15, 2005

"Yeah, I have only one ear, but that's because I'm an innovative painter."

-- Vincent van Gogh

Date: Mar 15, 2005

Fagan's letter is silly. Texas College of Tyler is in Alabama? Wingate University is in Rock Hill, South Carolina, not Georgia. Plus he makes "having it" sound more like a medal of honor than a critical illness.

I've known Bill Crouch (president of Georgetown in Kentucky) since 1979, though not as well as I have known his family. He's been president there since 1991. There is no comparison.

Date: Mar 15, 2005

More on Georgetown College in Kentucky's probation:

Georgetown was placed on probation for financial difficulties resulting from the fallout in the stock market post-9/11. President Crouch and their board of trustees (they are a small Baptist school) have taken some pretty extraordinary measures to put the institution on a firmer financial footing. From all I can gather, this is an example of a much smaller school taking probation VERY seriously at the level of the board and the administration. Maybe the IHL could take a page from that play book.

Date: Mar 15, 2005

Excellent points, David. I could not believe this person's letter.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: David Johnson
"Fagan's letter is silly. Texas College of Tyler is in Alabama? Wingate University is in Rock Hill, South Carolina, not Georgia. Plus he makes "having it" sound more like a medal of honor than a critical illness. I've known Bill Crouch (president of Georgetown in Kentucky) since 1979, though not as well as I have known his family. He's been president there since 1991. There is no comparison."

I am afraid you are wrong too. Wingate University is in North Carolina....not South. http://www.wingate.edu/

Texas College of Tyler was given its probabtion at a SACS meeting in Alabama. These others schools were given their status at a SACS meeting in Georgia, so the mix up in location could be a typo on the newspaper editor's part. I have had several of my papers sized down by editors and they messed things up like this. Just food for thought.

The location is not what is significant though. That is trivial. The secondary point in the article is that these schools also have probation. That is what is significant, and there is no disputing that they have probation. The main point, though, was one of objectivity. I am surprised you missed that. No letter is silly when it calls for greater objectivity.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Invictus -- we need your expertise chill this guy. A letter to the ed would be nice perhaps. I esepcially love the following:"

IIRC, Fagan is an habitual letter-to-the-editor writer. There are several who appear in the HA almost as regularly as any of their syndicated columnists. Fagan's letter ought to be allowed to stand on its own merits, as it has none.

That said, the thought of a rebuttal letter has crossed my mind. Believe me.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

Stephen Judd,

I know the Sauciers, and believe me Gene will respond. And, his response will be more than adequate. Many of the board remember how he sliced and diced Carl Nicholson's editorial about USM last year. So good in fact that CN didn't bother with a reply.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

I especially enjoyed the way Fagan morphed "probation" into "warning," even though a SACS warning is an entirely separate beast from a probation. A probation is much more serious than a warning (which is pretty serious in its own right).

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"I especially enjoyed the way Fagan morphed "probation" into "warning," even though a SACS warning is an entirely separate beast from a probation. A probation is much more serious than a warning (which is pretty serious in its own right).
"

And, IIRC, Invictus, we had two years of "warnings" BEFORE we got to the probation bidness.

By the way, the earlier poster is absolutely correct that I mistyped SC when I meant NC. I fail to see how this letter makes any GENUINE call for objectivity. And, I still think it is silly, but I"ll say "goofy" instead.

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Friend of the Sauciers
"Stephen Judd, I know the Sauciers, and believe me Gene will respond. And, his response will be more than adequate. Many of the board remember how he sliced and diced Carl Nicholson's editorial about USM last year. So good in fact that CN didn't bother with a reply. "

I'd like to meet hom one day -- he has sent several excellent letters that were masterfully crafted. I well remember his dismembering of Nicholson. I'm looking forward to the rebuttal . . .

Date: Mar 16, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I'd like to meet hom one day -- he has sent several excellent letters that were masterfully crafted. I well remember his dismembering of Nicholson. I'm looking forward to the rebuttal . . . "

" I'd like to meet him . . ."