Concern for MY University - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Concern for MY University

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lamar Reynolds
"I logged onto this board for the first time because of what I read in the HA today. Those of you who know me will recognize me as an alumnus and a dedicated and long-time supporter of Southern Miss. Because of my position, I have been careful to maintain a position of strict neutrality in the recent unpleasantness. Nothing you read here should be construed as indicating that I support any particular person or faction. The HA refers to threats of violence on the AAUP Web Site. Can someone please direct me to the post(s) to which they refer? "

None exists that we can tell...none that were real threats of violence, anyway. But you might ask Ken Malone about his threats of violence made publicly against Kevin Walters, a member of the local media. Perhaps that is where you can direct your attentions?

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lamar Reynolds
"I logged onto this board for the first time because of what I read in the HA today. Those of you who know me will recognize me as an alumnus and a dedicated and long-time supporter of Southern Miss. Because of my position, I have been careful to maintain a position of strict neutrality in the recent unpleasantness. Nothing you read here should be construed as indicating that I support any particular person or faction. The HA refers to threats of violence on the AAUP Web Site. Can someone please direct me to the post(s) to which they refer?
"

Lamar,

If we could, we would!

There are literally thousands of threads on this board, with tens of thousands of posts. I have not personally come across any post refering to violence against business members, faculty, staff, or administrators, but if I do come across one, you can be sure that I will broadcast it loudly and clearly. This is not what we are about!

In another thread, truth4usm posted on this subject, reminding us that there are many, many people who post on this board. Many are faculty members, but many MORE are not. There are also posters who pose as faculty members, attempting to incite arguement or to "get a rise" out of someone. As you step through the threads, please keep this in mind. There are several "joke" threads which are not to be taken seriously at all. I believe that you will quickly be able to ferret out which threads are serious and which one's are not.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

I've searched as much as I had time to, and I can't find any. Sometimes the posters are sarcastic and often they are very clever, but a threat of violence?

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lamar Reynolds
"I logged onto this board for the first time because of what I read in the HA today. Those of you who know me will recognize me as an alumnus and a dedicated and long-time supporter of Southern Miss. Because of my position, I have been careful to maintain a position of strict neutrality in the recent unpleasantness. Nothing you read here should be construed as indicating that I support any particular person or faction. The HA refers to threats of violence on the AAUP Web Site. Can someone please direct me to the post(s) to which they refer? "

Lamar, I keep up with this board pretty well. I don't recall any such post, even among the jokers. If it threaten the business leaders it should have occurred recently since they were only in the news for about a week.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Far away alum
"I've searched as much as I had time to, and I can't find any. Sometimes the posters are sarcastic and often they are very clever, but a threat of violence? "

Mr. Reynolds:

I also have been on this and the FireShelby Board now as a regular reader and poster for nearly a year. In all that time I can't think of any threat let alone a threat that could have been intended seriously. There has been discussion of possible work related actions: strikes, walk outs, sick outs, etc. There has been discussion of organizing and demonstration. Most of these discussions usually end up in arguments about how we can get the word out about how badly things are going without alienating the public when in fact the only ability WE have to make news is to take some action that will get coverage. I simply cannot remember ever seeing anything I'd remotely construe as a threat, as violent, as intimidating.

Believe me, most of the people on this board not only would find that kind of action reprehensible, but do not even have the means to take such action in any way that could be genuinely dangerous.

I don't know what odd quotes were abstracted off of the Board to justify the acustation of "violence" from the faculty and the AAUP, but someone would have had to asearch long and hard and, I would suggest, deliberately misinterpret what they had read to construe such a threat as anything either serious or endemic to this community.

Thank you for getting on the board and asking your question -- I hope you continue to participate in the discussions.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Mr. Reynolds:

You might want to ask the person who made this accusation to supply you (and us) with a copy of the alleged threat. The only threat I have heard about is the alleged suggestion by a member of the USM administration that a reporter be lynched. I might point out, by the way, that the member of the administration has never denied making such a comment.

If you look at this board carefully, and overlook some of the humor, you will find that we anti-Shelbyites practically have to BEG supporters of Shelby to engage in serious discussion. They never (or very rarely) take us up on our invitations. One reason the frustration level gets a bit high here at times is because the supporters of Shelby never seriously discuss the issues; instead they make (usually illiterate) hit-and-run raids. Scroll back through the various threads that have been started by "Albert" and you'll see what I mean.

In the meantime, I think that if you (or anyone) come here and want to have a serious discussion about the merits of Shelby Thames as a university administrator (as opposed to his merits as a polymer scientist, athletic supporter, etc.), you will find plenty of people who would enjoy engaging in such an exchange. Thanks for visiting, and come back often.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Mr. Reynolds,

I read every note on this message board (and the Fire Shelby board before this one came into being), and the only reference to any sort of violence or threat I can remember is the one about lynching Kevin Walters, reportedly made by a USM administrator (who has not denied making it). Frustrations run high at times, and there are many examples of humor (a great stress reducer) but certainly no threats of harm to anyone and the notion that we are advocating violence is nothing but a ludicrous (and vicious) rumor!!! Please read back through the old pages and confirm this for yourself. We are trying to make USM a better place (and feel very unheard I might add).....this is our university too and we care deeply.

Welcome Mr. Reynolds and

No Quarter!

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Lamar Reynolds
"I logged onto this board for the first time because of what I read in the HA today. Those of you who know me will recognize me as an alumnus and a dedicated and long-time supporter of Southern Miss. Because of my position, I have been careful to maintain a position of strict neutrality in the recent unpleasantness. Nothing you read here should be construed as indicating that I support any particular person or faction. The HA refers to threats of violence on the AAUP Web Site. Can someone please direct me to the post(s) to which they refer? "

Mr. Reynolds:

Your support of USM is greatly appreciated. You mention the "AAUP website." This message board is not limited to AAUP members and is open to the public, and therefore all posts do not represent the viewpoint or opinion of the local chapter of the AAUP.

If you wish to learn a bit about academic best practices and governance, I recommend that you point your browser toward the official national AAUP website (www.aaup.org). Although many alumni are familiar with university policies and procedures from the student standpoint, I think that becoming familiar with standard university operating procedures from a faculty and administration standpoint can be enlightening. In addition to the AAUP webiste, numerous organizations, including NCATE, APA, SACS and many others, post useful information on university policies and procedures, and the Chronicle of Higher Education is an outstanding resource for this purpose also.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=24082&subForumID=36767&action=viewTopic&commentID=2261151&topicPage=3

Mr. Reynolds,

While contemplating the question of violence, I remembered this post. Mr. Malone, an (I think) administrator said that he would like to see harm done to Kevin Walters,(please let me have his last name right) a reporter for the HA.

I am not faculty at USM, I am not staff at USM, I'm not even a student or a parent of a student at USM. I am a concerned friend.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Mitch
" Mr. Reynolds: Your support of USM is greatly appreciated. You mention the "AAUP website." This message board is not limited to AAUP members and is open to the public, and therefore all posts do not represent the viewpoint or opinion of the local chapter of the AAUP. If you wish to learn a bit about academic best practices and governance, I recommend that you point your browser toward the official national AAUP website (www.aaup.org). Although many alumni are familiar with university policies and procedures from the student standpoint, I think that becoming familiar with standard university operating procedures from a faculty and administration standpoint can be enlightening. In addition to the AAUP webiste, numerous organizations, including NCATE, APA, SACS and many others, post useful information on university policies and procedures, and the Chronicle of Higher Education is an outstanding resource for this purpose also. "

Good job Mitch!

Date: Mar 11, 2005

There were several posts from this board (also handed out at the meeting last night) that they are referring to as the "threats of violence"... I do not have the date/time of the post, but here are a few samples....

Post by Cossack says ".... we should just make like Buford Pusser and get a big stick and beat the crap out of all our corrupt enemies"

Post by Jameela Lares says "...Violence is a very effective tool and it can be very satisfying... "They need killing" is frowned upon by the law..."

Post by Angeline says "This is war.... Do you fight fair? NO! You use any and every means at your disposal.... Fight dirty. Fight to win... etc....."

Just a few of the samples given. There are some really twisted puppies posting on this site. For the sake of our University, if anyone knows these posters, someone should talk some sense into them.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Lamar,

I know you as Record Eagle over on Eagletalk. While I am also an enthusiastic USM athletic supporter, we do not currently have a qualified person in the Dome leading this university. We have lost much more than can be regained on any field, court, or arena with the suffering our academic reputation has incurred.

It only takes a few seasons to recruit quality student-athletes with good coaching. It takes a heck of a lot longer to recruit quality faculty, many of which we have (and continue) to lose.

I worry about our university community. You should be too.

GO EAGLES!

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Can you give us the contexts for these quotations -- the specific threads? I suspect that the first, for instance, was just an example of someone trying to be funny and dramatic and over-doing in on both counts. It is also very hard for me to imagine Jameela Lars endorsing personal violence of any kind for any purpose.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"Can you give us the contexts for these quotations -- the specific threads? I suspect that the first, for instance, was just an example of someone trying to be funny and dramatic and over-doing in on both counts. It is also very hard for me to imagine Jameela Lars endorsing personal violence of any kind for any purpose."

Sorry! "in" should be "it" and "Lars" should be "Lares"

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Mr. Reynolds:

Thank you for coming to this web site to get more information. I was really concerned about the reports of violence here--if the Cossack and the Jameela Lares quotes were the ones passed out Thursday evening as examples of inciting violence, I have to wonder what was on the menu at that meeting. It sounds to me like a lot of hyperbole was dished out along with a side of hysteria.

I don't know who Cossack is--most of his/her posts are relatively harmless--however, he/she may be a jack-booted thug with a 10 gauge in the gun rack. Hard to know on an anonymous board. When Jameela Lares opens her mouth or gets on a keyboard, she is more likely to be quoting poetry than issuing a violent threat.

It sounds to me like someone at the Thursday meeting was trying to find something on the AAUP board to "stir the pot."

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Oh, and by the way, Mr. Reynolds, it is MY University, too. I have many more ties here than a paycheck.

Date: Mar 11, 2005

Neutral Party,

Thank you for sharing the list of alleged threats of violence that were passed out at the Thursday meeting.

The list is an example of what happens when sentences or phrases are taken out of context. The reader isn't privy to what was said or written before or after the selected passage. I can assure you that Dr. Jameela Lares is the most unlikely person to threaten any human or animal. Her posts were taken out of context. In my 30 years as a faculty member at USM, I've never heard anyone advocate any kind of violence. (That is one reason why the alleged statement attributed to Malone that Kevin Walters should be lynched was so very upsetting to not only the faculty who post here but to all posters).

I have followed the postings on both boards and faculty are the least likely group of individuals is this or any other community to resort to violence to solve problems. Instead, they usually talk issues to death after examining them from all sides.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Post by Jameela Lares says "...Violence is a very effective tool and it can be very satisfying... "They need killing" is frowned upon by the law..."

I said WHAT, Neutral Party????!!!! Please provide the name of the thread. I rather imagine that the first part of the quotation is someone else's and that I was responding with disapproval. Note that postings in response to someone else's comments often begin with those foreign comments, especially if there are intervening posts.

Thanks to the other posters for assuring you that I am opposed to violence and, I will add, other immoral things. As I told Mr. Brian, I even pray for Dr. Thames, asking God to bless him, which is the prescribed reaction within the biblical code of behavior to which I have committed my life. That code of behavior also asks me to consider my neighbor's needs as equal to my own--I try to l ive up to that. If any of you DO see me stepping out of line, please let me know, "Let the righteous reprove me; it shall be a kindness" (Ps. 141.5). But realize that speaking the truth from the motivation of a concern for my neighbor is also part of that code of behavior. None of us is enjoined to be blind, adoring, obedient puppies before the rich, but rather to speak up with a concern for the truth. See any of the prophetic statements in the Bible--there's about an inch of them.

But yes, I will end by quoting literature, all from Shakespeare:

"The purest treasure mortal times afford / Is spotless reputation" (1 Henry IV, 1.1).

“He who steals my purse steals trash… / But he that filches from me my good name / Robs me of that which not enriches him / And makes me poor indeed” (Othello 3.3).

"You mistake, sir: I am sure no man hath any quarrel to me: my remembrance is very free and clear from any image of offence done to any man" (Twelfth Night, 3.4).

No quarter.

Jameela

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Neutral Party
" There were several posts from this board (also handed out at the meeting last night) that they are referring to as the "threats of violence"... I do not have the date/time of the post, but here are a few samples.... Post by Cossack says ".... we should just make like Buford Pusser and get a big stick and beat the crap out of all our corrupt enemies" Post by Jameela Lares says "...Violence is a very effective tool and it can be very satisfying... "They need killing" is frowned upon by the law..." Post by Angeline says "This is war.... Do you fight fair? NO! You use any and every means at your disposal.... Fight dirty. Fight to win... etc....." Just a few of the samples given. There are some really twisted puppies posting on this site. For the sake of our University, if anyone knows these posters, someone should talk some sense into them. "

I agree with Jameela - I would really like to see the thread where I supposedly said the above. I have called for more direct action on the part of the faculty at various times, such as going out on strike for a day, etc. But violence? Get a life and quit kidding me! As a matter of fact, the one time I jokingly referred to physical action against someone, and it was obvious within the post that I was joking, was when I called for Ken Malone to be visited by night riders in response to his lynching of Kevin Walters comment. I have NEVER said "fight dirty." I prefer cleanliness to hog-groveling, sewer-living, false accusations any day. You bidness people who orchestrated Thursday's affair make me sick. You are despicable. But I'll let you face your maker for your slanderous crimes rather than visit justice upon you myself. Are we clear now?

Date: Mar 12, 2005

If you've had a good liberal arts education, you know that when some says "This is war" they are usually speaking metaphorically.

I think the important thing to remember about the Thames administration is that are willing to manipulate the data to their advantage. In short, they lie. They lied about the enrollments last year, they lied about Frank and Gary being criminals, they lied about not knowing about the SACs problems. They are certainly not afraid to take humor on this board out of context. To paint Jameela Lares as violent is the most pathetic and laughable action. Personally I consider her the board's "spiritual advisor," and I always feel better when she quotes poetry and the bible.

If there is some slightly tasteless humor on this message board, it is a result of the months and months of frustration the posters feel as they watch USM sliding downward, as things get worse and worse, and the IHL refuses to do anything about it. I know those in the business community would like to think that the faculty are exaggerating and that USM is okay, but this is not the truth. The faculty are not getting anything out of being "rabble-rousers." They would rather be quietly teaching and researching, and many, like myself, have left USM so that they can do just that. They are simply trying to get the TRUTH to the community, which seems not to want to believe it, inspite of what the Hattiesburg American prints. Community leaders, you can keep your heads buried in the sand like an ostrich, and think that what Shelby is doing is good work, but when everyone who works at USM says otherwise, and the accrediting agency doesn't think so, perhaps you ought to listen. Nobody who works at USM is "enjoying" these conflicts. In fact, the only one who claims to be enjoying himself is Shelby. Pay attention to the faculty, before it is too late.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

If these quotes were really provided to the meeting participants, it seems clear that it is the providers of the quotes that are fighting dirty - the quotes have the distinct stink of a smear campaign. The quotes are fakes - either made up entirely or cut and pasted out of context to create a scare tactic intended to inflame and stir up Shelby supporters. It is pure, frantic manipulation.

NO QUARTER!

Date: Mar 12, 2005

One problem is that the external stakeholders to the university community are behind the curve compared to the insiders. For those of us who have been contributing to this and the predecessor website and who have come to realize how pervasive the problems are under the Thames administration, it's difficult to believe that everyone hasn't figured it out. One of the hardest tasks that we have right now is to patiently retell the story as new people visit the board, ask us for insight, and try to understand.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Salesperson
"One problem is that the external stakeholders to the university community are behind the curve compared to the insiders. For those of us who have been contributing to this and the predecessor website and who have come to realize how pervasive the problems are under the Thames administration, it's difficult to believe that everyone hasn't figured it out. One of the hardest tasks that we have right now is to patiently retell the story as new people visit the board, ask us for insight, and try to understand."

AMEN!!!!! and worthly of Mr. Wonderful attention, please.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

In reviewing the so-called threatening posts, I am reminded of the movie, You've Got Mail. Meg Ryan's character is concerned that her business will fail when Tom Hanks emails her to "go to the mattresses." He states that "This is war! It's not personal, it's business." I doubt very seriously that Tom Hanks was telling Meg Ryan to advocate any physical violence in this movie, even though he was quoting The Godfather. It was hyperbole, just as the comments made on this website.

I also find it amusing to think of some poor Thamesian hunting through thousands and thousands of posts to find a mere handful that could be twisted, taken out of context, and misconstrued to be threatening. Pitiful and once again, very, very sad.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: Neutral Party
" ... Post by Cossack says ".... we should just make like Buford Pusser and get a big stick and beat the crap out of all our corrupt enemies"

Post by Jameela Lares says "...Violence is a very effective tool and it can be very satisfying... "They need killing" is frowned upon by the law..."

Post by Angeline says "This is war.... Do you fight fair? NO! You use any and every means at your disposal.... Fight dirty. Fight to win... etc....." ...

As I said earlier I have read almost all of the post on this board. I actually recall these "phases" quoted above, but they are totally out of context and most don't even form complete sentences. For example if during a debate I said, " These problems are difficulty to solve. It is crazy if you think we should just make like Buford Pusser and get a big stick and beat the crap out of all our corrupt enemies."

Would you consider that a threat? It's those darn "..." that is causing the problem.

(What are they anyway? Ellipses?)

Date: Mar 12, 2005

Dear Dr. Lares:

I have always found your posts to be well reasoned, impassioned, and most of all, above reproach. You have quoted the Bible often and as I sit with my Bible before me, I see many verses which could be taken out of context and misinterpreted. I have never doubted your intentions.

Sincerely,

Your advocate as well.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Let Freedom Ring
"If these quotes were really provided to the meeting participants, it seems clear that it is the providers of the quotes that are fighting dirty - the quotes have the distinct stink of a smear campaign. The quotes are fakes - either made up entirely or cut and pasted out of context to create a scare tactic intended to inflame and stir up Shelby supporters. It is pure, frantic manipulation.
NO QUARTER!"

The quotes are obviously out of context & do not fully reflect the "personality" of the poster that would only be clear to someone who had read the entire thread or several related threads. To accuse Jameela of advocating violence is sort of like accusing Shelby of advocating shared governance & due process.

Tthe very fact that Mixon -- or more likely the USM employee(s) who were charged with providing the information that Mixon used -- chose to take quotes out of context & present them without any qualifications whatsoever demonstrates very clearly that the organizers of the Thursday night "event" are no more enamoured of the truth than Shelby. THE ONLY WAY SHELBY'S BUDDIES CAN SUPPORT HIM IS TO LIE.

The bottom line: Bob Mixon is as big a liar as Shelby Thames. Surprise, surprise.

WOULD YOU BUY A USED CAR FROM THAT MAN?

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Salesperson
"One problem is that the external stakeholders to the university community are behind the curve compared to the insiders. For those of us who have been contributing to this and the predecessor website and who have come to realize how pervasive the problems are under the Thames administration, it's difficult to believe that everyone hasn't figured it out. One of the hardest tasks that we have right now is to patiently retell the story as new people visit the board, ask us for insight, and try to understand."

Thanks for a great reminder, Salesperson! I do hope that new people visiting the board will not rely on what they were told Thursday night. Instead, I hope they will participate in our discussions, raise serious questions, and consider our answers. By directing people to this board, Shelby's supporters may (once again) have shot themselves in the foot.

Date: Mar 12, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Reporter
" As I said earlier I have read almost all of the post on this board. I actually recall these "phases" quoted above, but they are totally out of context and most don't even form complete sentences. For example if during a debate I said, " These problems are difficulty to solve. It is crazy if you think we should just make like Buford Pusser and get a big stick and beat the crap out of all our corrupt enemies." Would you consider that a threat? It's those darn "..." that is causing the problem. (What are they anyway? Ellipses?)"

Seems to me this is worthy of a letter to the editor, or even a news story...the fact that the gnome lovers took a fragment of a sentence - plus out of context - to attack the aaup board. Their claims were an outright lie.