new article in The Independent - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 3, 2005

new article in The Independent

Date: Mar 3, 2005

Isn't it more important that Thames and his backers think a meeting is necessary?

Robert Campbell

Date: Mar 3, 2005

Let's see the names. Let's see the companies. Let's speak with our dollars.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

Hosts are Brad Brian, Bobby Dews, Bonnie Drews, Gwen James, Richard Jones, Jan Lacy, Bob Mixon, Carl Nicholson, Doug Rouse, and Lawrence Warren.

Interesting quotes:

"The invitation to Drews to host the meeting was extended by Lisa Mader ..."

"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

"... true purpose of the meeting is to support extension of Dr. Thames' contract when it comes up for renewal in 2006."

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Local Interest
"Hosts are Brad Brian, Bobby Dews, Bonnie Drews, Gwen James, Richard Jones, Jan Lacy, Bob Mixon, Carl Nicholson, Doug Rouse, and Lawrence Warren. Interesting quotes: "The invitation to Drews to host the meeting was extended by Lisa Mader ..." "The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology." "... true purpose of the meeting is to support extension of Dr. Thames' contract when it comes up for renewal in 2006." "

If this is true, then the battle lines have now been clearly established and in public.

We need no longer try to play the polite game -- having now put this put into the public by the other side, our gloves can come off. This amonts to a declaration of war.

No one can now give an excuse for not taking a stand --

"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

There is the line in the sand . . .

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by: Local Interest
"Hosts are Brad Brian, Bobby Dews, Bonnie Drews, Gwen James, Richard Jones, Jan Lacy, Bob Mixon, Carl Nicholson, Doug Rouse, and Lawrence Warren . . .

"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

What is it that qualifies the aforementioned group to influence an academic decision? I doubt that they are any more qualified to do that than I am to determine whether Colonel Saunders should sell chicken or pork belly.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Local Interest
"Hosts are Brad Brian, Bobby Dews, Bonnie Drews, Gwen James, Richard Jones, Jan Lacy, Bob Mixon, Carl Nicholson, Doug Rouse, and Lawrence Warren.
B>"

James is a realtor
Nicholson is an accountant
Rouse is an orthopedic surgeon
Warren paves streets

How about the others?

Date: Mar 3, 2005

"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

This quote displays such ignorance regarding the mission of a comprehensive university. Even with its contracted colleges of health, business, education/psychology, arts/letters, and science/technology, USM is comprehensive. Her statement is simply ludicrous and is only an attempt to frame an illigitimate argument.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

God bless you each and every one.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Local Interest
""The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

I hope this group does not believe that there is a choice between these two options. If they think that USM can become another MIT or Cal Tech they've have a rude awakening. Mississippi couldn't afford that even if it closed all of its universities except USM and put all of its resources into one high-tech university. The choice presented in the Independent article is not an option. If an institution of that type were feasible. Mississippi State, with its already established programs in engineering, is the logical place for it.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

Could it be that the faculty are helping with SACS only to have USM turn into a technical institute or trade school?

Date: Mar 3, 2005

It is almost time, amis, for faculty to decided how far they are willing to go to enable the present tyranny. If SFT is not on his way out the door by the end of this term, perhaps it is time to lay down the pencils.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Food For Thought
"Could it be that the faculty are helping with SACS only to have USM turn into a technical institute or trade school?"

YES.

The faculty are being used as window dressing.

Shared governance is a sham -- the governance sharing is a coalition of administrators and community people. The faculty is not truly involved.

Speaking as an individual faculty member (and not as a member of academic council or the senate). I wish that every university faculty governance committee would disband immediately and refuse to be the main curtain to this sham play.

There isn't anything else to lose at this point except the continued degradation of everything that the last thirty years has built.

Joe Parker, Bill Scarborough, and many more -- all you folks that have been here for ages and invested a lot of your lives here, I'm damn sorry it has come to this.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

And Lucas?? What is in his heart today? Will he ever speak?

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Monique de Guerre
"And Lucas?? What is in his heart today? Will he ever speak?"

Up to this point . . . I could somewhat understand his reticence. I cherish Aubrey but it is time for him to step up. This is exactly the time to use all of those hard won chips . . . .

Date: Mar 3, 2005

The next thing you know USM will be running its art program online. Reminds me of those old comic book and magazine advertisements where you reproduce a simple picture, send it in, and they write you back with an assessment. My guess has always been that if you send them a really bad reproduction they will write to you and say that really need the art training. And if you send them a very good reproduction they will write to you and say you have real talent and should avail yourself of their art training program.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Paint by Numbers
"The next thing you know USM will be running its art program online. Reminds me of those old comic book and magazine advertisements where you reproduce a simple picture, send it in, and they write you back with an assessment. My guess has always been that if you send them a really bad reproduction they will write to you and say that really need the art training. And if you send them a very good reproduction they will write to you and say you have real talent and should avail yourself of their art training program. "

Next thing you know USM will be outsourcing its art program . . . .

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Makin' a list, checkin' it
" James is a realtor Nicholson is an accountant Rouse is an orthopedic surgeon Warren paves streets How about the others?"

Brad Brian - Hattiesburg Coca-Cola; Bobby Dews - Dews Foundry; Bonnie Drews - Republican Party leader and wife of local dentist Dr. Fred Drews; Richard Jones - new ADP chair (insurance businessman who in his ADP role works closely with Dr. Angeline Dvorak); Jan Lacy - Copy Cats Printing; Bob Mixon - Courtesy Ford.

Here's a quote from Bonnie Drews that hasn't been posted: "Liberal arts and the liberal arts faculty has set the direction of USM for the past 25 years. Now we have to change direction and Dr. Thames is attempting to do that despite opposition from the liberal arts faculty."

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
" Brad Brian - Hattiesburg Coca-Cola; Bobby Dews - Dews Foundry; Bonnie Drews - Republican Party leader and wife of local dentist Dr. Fred Drews; Richard Jones - new ADP chair (insurance businessman who in his ADP role works closely with Dr. Angeline Dvorak); Jan Lacy - Copy Cats Printing; Bob Mixon - Courtesy Ford. Here's a quote from Bonnie Drews that hasn't been posted: "Liberal arts and the liberal arts faculty has set the direction of USM for the past 25 years. Now we have to change direction and Dr. Thames is attempting to do that despite opposition from the liberal arts faculty.""

I'm amazed that there is some sense that liberal arts and science and technology are in conflict. The only conflict is when serious resources are shifted away from one unit to another; or when the faculty of one unit feels threatened because it has been essentially told that its core mission is no longer to provide an intellectual center to the university, to seek ways to promote cross disciplinary thinking and action rather than the false isolation of disciplinary "expertise" and to be a powerful voice of ethical and intellectual conscience within the university. The problem is that the administration's allies see this as a zero sum game -- someone wins and someone loses. If science and technology is going to be promoted then liberal arts has to lose . . . it aint true and I know enough scientists and technologists out there who don't believe it either.

This is NOT a war between science and technology and the liberal arts (although sometimes it can seem like that when we snipe at one another). This is a war with an administration that wants to control knowlege in both areas -- it wants just as much to harness science and technology to the plow of economic development as it wants to diminish liberal arts. It would harness liberal arts if it could -- but it can't. There just ain't gonna be many earth shattering (and lucrative) inventions to come our of philosophy (sorry Dr. Holley) or Eglish Lit (ditto David Wheeler) . . . or the rest of you. You know who you are.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
" I'm amazed that there is some sense that liberal arts and science and technology are in conflict. The only conflict is when serious resources are shifted away from one unit to another; or when the faculty of one unit feels threatened because it has been essentially told that its core mission is no longer to provide an intellectual center to the university, to seek ways to promote cross disciplinary thinking and action rather than the false isolation of disciplinary "expertise" and to be a powerful voice of ethical and intellectual conscience within the university. The problem is that the administration's allies see this as a zero sum game -- someone wins and someone loses. If science and technology is going to be promoted then liberal arts has to lose . . . it aint true and I know enough scientists and technologists out there who don't believe it either. This is NOT a war between science and technology and the liberal arts (although sometimes it can seem like that when we snipe at one another). This is a war with an administration that wants to control knowlege in both areas -- it wants just as much to harness science and technology to the plow of economic development as it wants to diminish liberal arts. It would harness liberal arts if it could -- but it can't. There just ain't gonna be many earth shattering (and lucrative) inventions to come our of philosophy (sorry Dr. Holley) or Eglish Lit (ditto David Wheeler) . . . or the rest of you. You know who you are. "

Is it any wonder that physics, on one hand the most material and on the other hand the most abstract of sciences is under attack? I'm not speaking simply of the Master's Program. Physics has been nearly as suspect as Liberal Arts in this administration. Physicists sometimes seem a little too close to philosphers, theologians, and those other unproductive sponges on the colleage landscape . . . (I hope none of my physics colleagues are insulted by that . . . I briefly contemplated a career in physics in the third grade but I ran into NEW MATH.)

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler
Here's a quote from Bonnie Drews that hasn't been posted: "Liberal arts and the liberal arts faculty has set the direction of USM for the past 25 years. Now we have to change direction and Dr. Thames is attempting to do that despite opposition from the liberal arts faculty.""

If this is actually the wife of the dentist and if she really said this, I'd like to say that I'd rather that all of my teeth all rot out before going in the direction implied in that statement. Just reading whose words makes me feel like I'm experiencing a root canal.

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: The Tooth Fairy
"If this is actually the wife of the dentist and if she really said this, I'd like to say that I'd rather that all of my teeth all rot out before going in the direction implied in that statement. Just reading whose words makes me feel like I'm experiencing a root canal."

Actually I have a tooth that needs some serious attending to right now so I can really relate to the significance of that vow . . . .

Date: Mar 3, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Actually I have a tooth that needs some serious attending to right now so I can really relate to the significance of that vow . . . ."

Your statement demands a reply, but that reply will not come from me!

Date: Mar 3, 2005

Baker & Graham on 28th

Date: Mar 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Local Interest
"Thought for sure there would be posts about the latest article in The Independent. Big meeting of Shelby supporters to be held March 10. Interesting reading, usual suspects hosting it: Carl Nicholson, Bobby Dews, Bob Mixon, Lawrence Warren, etc."

Hmmm. Does this mean that the USM faculty will hold a similar meeting to determine if the local Ford dealer will continue to sell Fords or switch over to selling DeSoto FireDome Eights, Hudson Hornets, and Nash Metropolitans? If the faculty holds two such meetings, maybe there should be a discussion of whether the local coke plant should continue to market Coca-Cola or switch over to Double Cola, Orange Crush, and Oh-So-Grape. The topic of a third meeting might be whether the streets in Hattiesburg should continue to be paved or switched over to Oyster Shell topping as was the case in Louisiana. If USM's mission and structure is the business of these people, then surely the USM faculty should be able to determine what automobile a dealer sells, what soft drinks are produced, and what kind of surface is to be used on our roads.

Date: Mar 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"
If this is true, then the battle lines have now been clearly established and in public.
We need no longer try to play the polite game -- having now put this put into the public by the other side, our gloves can come off. This amonts to a declaration of war.
No one can now give an excuse for not taking a stand --
"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."
There is the line in the sand . . . "

That this is Thames's intent has been the suspicion of many for a very long time. Two things: if this is true, it is the scariest thing we've heard. USM will no longer be a comprehensive and Thames, not the IHL, will have given the other universities what they want.

Second, this may be true, but it also draws attention away from the fact that these folks are going to try their d***est to get a second term for SFT.

Date: Mar 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: V-8. The car, not the beverage
"Hmmm. Does this mean that the USM faculty will hold a similar meeting to determine if the local Ford dealer will continue to sell Fords or switch over to selling DeSoto FireDome Eights, Hudson Hornets, and Nash Metropolitans? If the faculty holds two such meetings, maybe there should be a discussion of whether the local coke plant should continue to market Coca-Cola or switch over to Double Cola, Orange Crush, and Oh-So-Grape. The topic of a third meeting might be whether the streets in Hattiesburg should continue to be paved or switched over to Oyster Shell topping as was the case in Louisiana. If USM's mission and structure is the business of these people, then surely the USM faculty should be able to determine what automobile a dealer sells, what soft drinks are produced, and what kind of surface is to be used on our roads."
If the trade school model for USM does become a reality, the mass exodus of faculty is likely to open up vast new horizons for the real estate industry.

Date: Mar 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Makin' a list, checkin' it
" James is a realtor Nicholson is an accountant Rouse is an orthopedic surgeon Warren paves streets How about the others?"

Time to boycott "Copy Cats Printing" -- owned by Jan Lacy.

Date: Mar 4, 2005

Why is the wife of a dentist more qualified to decide the future of the university than the faculty who work there? I sincerely regret that I ever stepped into Dr. Drews office. I will never do so again.

Date: Mar 4, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"The issue, she [Drews] continued, is whether USM will continue as a primarily liberal arts university or whether it will focus on technology."

If the people organizing that March 10 meeting at the Coca-Cola plant are so darn savy about academics, don't they realize that a university with a technology emphasis must have bona fide degree programs in engineering? Mississipi already has two universities with degree programs in engineering - Jackson State and Mississippi State. The mere thought of the IHL approving a third one reminds me of something I heard one of my former colleagues say when he observed unnecessary program proliferation and duplication: "Well, Bob, I guess we Mississippian's got more money than we got sense."