How unethical is it? - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 21, 2005

How unethical is it?

Date: Feb 21, 2005

Last December, Shelby Thames directed faculty to answer questions that students had concerning SACS probation and accreditation.

Amy Young

Date: Feb 21, 2005

It isn't unethical to discuss educational matters in an educational institution.

Just after the March 5 drama, I told one or more of my classes about its probable impact on them, but then said that, in the spirit of Winston Churchill, I had told them how bad it was with an eye to getting on to our duties (= the course topic), so that this could be our finest hour, etc. etc. And I have been known to mention ongoing administrative problems as illustrative examples, since the students are pretty much aware of how bad things are. Thus, I am using the known to discuss the unknown, a teacherly trait.

I could well use the sorry mess at USM to illustrate the background of mid-17th century literature for my Milton and Brit Lit survey classes. Charles I denied Parliament's hereditary right to make laws, and instead taxed the country unmercifully for 11 years (1629-1640) to finance his own high-priced, in-house amusements. He allowed his court favorites to made sweeping national changes and to despise and mistreat everyone not in the inner circle. We get the phrase "Star Chamber" from this period--devastating and overwhelming persecution for speaking truth to power. Of course, the game was bigger and rougher than ours. Charles's intransigence caused the English Civil War and its aftermath (1642-1660), from which in many ways the country has never recovered, and both Charles and his two closest cronies were eventually beheaded. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it, though I think we can safely say that the beheading here will only be metaphorical.

I am not temperamentally an activist or a contrarian, and I try to choose my battles. It is a mark of how devastating Dr. Thames's presidency has been that I am as vocal as I am.

Jameela

Date: Feb 21, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"Last December, Shelby Thames directed faculty to answer questions that students had concerning SACS probation and accreditation.
Amy Young"

This may be the "administrator" in me speaking, but was that directive meant to suggest that the topic should be voluntarily addressed in class by the instructor, or that instructors should be prepared to answer questions raised by the students? I have a feeling the "spirit" of that directive was to answer questions that might be raised by students in a faculty office outside the classroom, an adviser/advisee kind of thing.

So I'm not sure Amy's not making quite a stretch with this one.

Certainly, the "situation" at USM might be worked into normal class content in certain disciplines, but I'd have a hard time figuring out how it would be worked into, say, a biology lecture or a computer science lab. (Interestingly, the disciplines that could most easily incorporate the "Southern Mess" into regular course content are the ones that have been most affected by the Thames administration's actions.)

Academic freedom means that if the content is germane to the topic being discussed, the instructor should be free to use it. OTOH, the other side of academic freedom's double edge is that an instructor is obligated not to use a classroom as a bully pulpit for topics that are unrelated to the course. (I felt that way before I was an administrator, BTW & your mileage may vary.)

My

, therefore, is that the question as originally posed is very complex & can only be answered by each individual teacher.

Date: Feb 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Belly Button Slip Knots
"How unethical is it to begin using USM's crisis in the classroom? "

What do you mean "begin"? The faculty has been doing this for at least two years now. You ought to go back in time 50 or so pages on this bulletin board and read about some of the things the faculty has done in the classroom and has gotten students to do in response to Thames.

Date: Feb 22, 2005

You say "the faculty" as if four or five hundred people are in lockstep, all doing the same thing at the same time.
If you are making accusations, please give specifics.

Date: Feb 22, 2005

Albert,

I find it hard to believe that faculty would have students do anything that the students would fundamentally disagree with. Heck, in many cases faculty can't get students to study or read an assignment much less get them to realize how easily an autocrat can destroy an institution. It's apparent that faculty didn't get you to understand the rationale for studying history.

You still haven't given any reasons to retain Mr. Thames' services as president. I'm not in Mississippi but have a degree from USM and am also an educator. The USM culture has evolved and, according to Edgar Schein, "cultures basically spring from three sources; (1) the beliefs, values, and assumptions of founders of organizations; (2) the learning experiences of group members as their organization evolves; and (3) new beliefs, values, and assumptions brought in by new members and leaders." The problem is that Mr. Thames has thrust his new beliefs, values and assumptions on the membership at large without regard for what the culture of the institution actually is. And he is not a leader.

Is it unethical to discuss this in courses -- if it pertains to course content it's perfectly defensible. We use Enron and Dell and WorldCom, why not use an institution that is near and that students can use as examples for case studies. You make it sound as if every math course, English course, art course, psychology course, etc. has been infused with anti-Thames sentiment. As someone else mentioned, either disclose who and how this was done or stop making sweeping generalizations. I recall one of the most meaningful things about my educational career was being challenged to think differently and learn how to respond to viewpoints that were different than my on with something other than "because I said so." That's critical thinking and how we survive in this world.

Leaders, true leaders, believe in something and rally folks to their view by engaging them not by forcing these folks into submission. Mr. Thames is not a leader but I do believe he is a brilliant polymer scientest. Faculty do not educate by forcing students to do something, they engage students and challenge them to think, ask questions, and discover.

Date: Feb 22, 2005

How unethical is it to lock professors out of their offices? How unethical is it to remove professors in the middle of a semester leaving students high & dry. a la G & S, as well as Dr. Harris?
Albert, we're waiting. You're quick to stir up, slow to answer.

Date: Feb 22, 2005

"Albert, we're waiting. You're quick to stir up, slow to answer."

Most trolls are pretty slow in general. Especially with third grade - if Albert made it to fourth grade by age 14 I'd be shocked....

Date: Feb 22, 2005

Date: Feb 22, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Googler's #1 Fan
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Only feed them soylent green and .