Crofts Reviews USM Dispute - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Crofts Reviews USM Dispute

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Promising quotes:

We have tasked the commissioner to get on this program and get us some information on that," said College Board president Roy Klumb of Gulfport. "As this becomes part of the larger picture, it's time for the board to sit down and discuss the overall situation at USM."

The letter Dr. Grimes sent to Dr. Doty has serious implications, and the commissioner is deeply concerned about the substance and content within the letter and the issues the letter raises," board spokeswoman Sarah Nicholas said in a statement.

"Today Dr. Crofts has been engaging in conversations and inquiries about the matter and is urgently reviewing the situation."

Klumb expects the matter to be taken up by board members behind closed doors in executive session because it is a personnel matter. He said Crofts was going to get in touch with Southern Miss President Shelby Thames.

"The red herring in all this is whatever is being done would adversely affect SACS and whatever is going to be done by this fall," Klumb said. "I'm disappointed that we've got this SACS (probation) and the name of SACS being loosely thrown around on the street down there. It's just something the commissioner has been charged to get with them and to the bottom of."

The university's Faculty Senate will address questions surrounding the College of Business at its regular monthly meeting today in the Union's Hall of Honors, said David Beckett, faculty senate president.

Asked about discussion of a Faculty Senate resolution passed a week ago asking the board to begin a search to replace Thames by next year, Klumb said that is a separate issue. But he said the board would discuss Southern Miss as a whole.

"There is no doubt that the board is going to discuss the overall situation at USM next week," Klumb said.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

"There is no doubt that the board is going to discuss the overall situation at USM next week," Klumb said.

Well, that certainly is a change of plan.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

This is BIG!

Klumb is getting worried now.

And Lisa Mader is nowhere to be found.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Doty, responding to a Friday letter from Grimes, said that if the program was forced to launch this fall it could affect the College of Business' standing with its accreditation agency and Southern Miss' overall accreditation by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools.

Could someone who has real knowledge about SACS comment on this statement. Is Doty correct? How serious is this issue with SACS? I just don't know enough about how SACS works to evaluate this, and I know there are a number of people who post on this board who have experience with SACS.

Thanks.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"This is BIG! Klumb is getting worried now. And Lisa Mader is nowhere to be found. Robert Campbell"

How perfectly great!

Notice how Lisa Mader has kept her little head WAAAAAY down recently. And I don't blame her one bit. If I were her, I'd be working all the contacts I had looking for another job post haste!

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: A wondering faculty member
"Could someone who has real knowledge about SACS comment on this statement. Is Doty correct? How serious is this issue with SACS? I just don't know enough about how SACS works to evaluate this, and I know there are a number of people who post on this board who have experience with SACS."

I am not USM faculty, admin or staff, but I have a boatload of experience (good & bad) with SACS. Another poster on this board, Stinky Cheese Man, has confirmed what Doty says relative to the SACS consultant advising all deans not to develop any new programs -- and online programs would have to be double-underlined, since the USM probation is related to distance learning.

SACS or a consultant is not going to tell an institution what it can & cannot do. But they will say that certain things are not a good idea™

Simple logic will tell you that if the accrediting agency has raised serious questions about how an institution plans & evaluates its distance learning program as a whole, it would be monumentally dumb to roll out a new one, especially one that leads to a graduate degree.

If USM gets its collective act together in demonstrating that it systematically evaluates its distance learning programs & uses the results of evaluations to improve the programs, the a hybrid MBA program might be a good idea. As Doty points out, it's pretty inefficient to run four separate traditional MBA programs (Hattiesburg, Stennis, Gulf Park & Jackson County).

Moreover, SACS is very keen on having institutions demonstrate that faculty have responsibility for planning & implementing programs. As Doty indicates, the Jackson County MBA program was initiated entirely by Ken Malone -- not even a tenured faculty member in CoB -- without notifying CoB personnel until it was a done deal.

In contacting SACS about this, Doty is not "turning USM in to the authorities." He is actually doing what other university administrators should have been doing all along -- contacting the staff liaison & asking if any special reports or other paperwork are required before proceeding with a major program activity.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: truth4usm/AH
"
How perfectly great!

Notice how Lisa Mader has kept her little head WAAAAAY down recently. And I don't blame her one bit. If I were her, I'd be working all the contacts I had looking for another job post haste!"

Grimes is going to take the fall for this one, but the end is near for the whole gang.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

this may be the end for grimes, but i'm not sure he will care. i know people who work with him and they have seen these recent episodes as very out of characters. he has been very stressed and some have worried about his health. if he had to step down and return to the GCRL he might be a much happier person. i've even wondered whether his recent memo was strategic in this regard, giving him an exit strategy.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"This is BIG! Klumb is getting worried now. And Lisa Mader is nowhere to be found. Robert Campbell"

Robert,

Since I follow your posts with great interest, I'm wondering if you'd care at this point to make any predictions? I am, of course, hoping that the Rubicon has been crossed at that Thames's days are now numbered. Am I being too optimistic?

Date: Feb 11, 2005

PS:

Does anyone have any thoughts on what we can do, in advance of the IHL meeting, to help ensure that the meeting is "productive"? I write to them several times a week, so I'm not sure that my simply continuing to write to them will make much difference. Any other suggestions?

Date: Feb 11, 2005

shall we try calling?

Date: Feb 11, 2005

USM Sympathizer,

Even assuming the maximum of ill-will toward USM on the part of the Board, Thames is now such a liability to the lot of them that some action will have to be taken.

I'd like to see them fire Thames at their next meeting and send Crofts in. Or if they insist on helping the man save face when he doesn't deserve to save any, announce that he is retiring for health reasons--and that Crofts is going in.

But I don't count it as the most likely outcome.

The Board could announce that Thames is not going to get another term, a search for a new president is being launched, and from now through August 2, Crofts will be spending a lot of time in Hattiesburg.

Or the Board could make no announcement about Thames' future employment, but shorten his leash one last time and put a choke collar on him. They could send Crofts to Hattiesburg weekly, at least till August 2, and order the prompt removal of both Grimes and Malone.

It strikes me as very unlikely that the Board will take no action against Thames. The public mano-a-mano between Doty and Grimes, and Doty's revelations about the way that the Thames administration is actively endangering USM's accreditation, have forced their hand.

Anything that can be done to keep the heat on Malone, so that at a minimum he takes the fall along with Grimes, could prove crucial in the days ahead. Not only is Malone playing a key role in the worst initiatives of the Thames administration, once he is gone Thames will have a hard time replacing him--and much greater difficulty enforcing his will on USM.

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"this may be the end for grimes, but i'm not sure he will care. i know people who work with him and they have seen these recent episodes as very out of characters. he has been very stressed and some have worried about his health. if he had to step down and return to the GCRL he might be a much happier person. i've even wondered whether his recent memo was strategic in this regard, giving him an exit strategy. "

SCM, I've wondered this, too. In the few dealings I've had with Dr. Grimes, he's impressed me as the kind of guy who wants people to like him. A bit smug, maybe, but then he had his go-to guy Weisenberg with him at the time & Dr. W. is some kind of sharp guy, so the smugness may have really just been the confidence of having an ace right-hand guy.

The memo did seem out of character, though, based on my limited interactions with him. I have no doubt he was pushed into this corner, though & the presence of Shelby-by-proxy (Malone) at the meeting with Doty may be significant.

Whatever, this bumpersticker is for Shelby:

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
" . . . the IHL . . . I write to them several times a week, so I'm not sure that my simply continuing to write to them will make much difference. Any other suggestions?"

This post by Tiger on another thread may be worthy of your consideration:

"The letter from Grimes to Doty is dated February 3rd and Thames is copied on that letter. If there was inaccurate information in that letter (for example the order to stop research) then why did it take until February 11th for SFT to respond to it? Oh wait, I forgot, SFT never reads anything."

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Lisa Mader has been trying to find a job in Jackson since December. She is still on the payroll but mainly in Jackson seeking employment. She typically leaves before all falls apart. Hattiesburg to Jackson, Jackson to Hattiesburg, and now Hattiesburg back to Jackson.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Godspeed, and stay the heck gone this time.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Vicariously
" This post by Tiger on another thread may be worthy of your consideration: "The letter from Grimes to Doty is dated February 3rd and Thames is copied on that letter. If there was inaccurate information in that letter (for example the order to stop research) then why did it take until February 11th for SFT to respond to it? Oh wait, I forgot, SFT never reads anything.""

Excellent point! This needs to be pointed out to the IHL; I will send them an e-mail about it.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

This Message Board has been a lifeline to my own self questioning issues of integrity and the the role of civic education. What I never learned in 9th grade, I am learning now. My deepest and most sincere thanks.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Emma
"This Message Board has been a lifeline to my own self questioning issues of integrity and the the role of civic education. What I never learned in 9th grade, I am learning now. My deepest and most sincere thanks."

Your own posts have been meaningful to me, Emma. Thanks.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Hey..... is that the "fat lady" I hear, warming up in the wings???

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Atticus
"Hey..... is that the "fat lady" I hear, warming up in the wings??? "

If you are a USM alumnus, Atticus, please don't wear your black and gold in public.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

And now we should think about turning from being "against" something(someone) and using this newly discovered energy to, as a group, really making this university achieve its potential.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Spike
"If you are a USM alumnus, Atticus, please don't wear your black and gold in public. "

Perhaps you misunderstood me Spike. I was playing on the phrase, "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings" referring to the opera. I was implying that the end is near, as she is practicing/singing scales off-stage in the wings. Sorry if I offended you.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: OLDIEGOLDIE
"And now we should think about turning from being "against" something(someone) and using this newly discovered energy to, as a group, really making this university achieve its potential."

OLDIEGOLDIE, I concur. When USM finally achieves normality, the sky's the limit. USM can be immune from the overriding spectre of intimidation and mistreatment that has existed in the past if the faculty uses its newly discovered energy to make USM achieve its potential. I truly believe that when USM's current problems are fully resolved it will be virtually impossible for any future higher-level administration to exert academic abuse. The faculty should insist on that, as do faculties at other major universities. On the day that USM attempted to fire those two tenured professors, I commented to my spouse that the repercussions of that will be very serious, and that it will have an unexpected and positive heuristic value for the institution itself. Little did the administration realize that those attempted firings would be "the shot heard round the academic wurl."

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Spike
"If you are a USM alumnus, Atticus, please don't wear your black and gold in public. "

Atticus - I thought you were referring to Emma's post. It is clear to me now that you were not. I would like to retract the above post. By all means, wear your black and gold!

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Atticus
"Perhaps you misunderstood me Spike. I was playing on the phrase, "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings" referring to the opera. I was implying that the end is near, as she is practicing/singing scales off-stage in the wings. Sorry if I offended you."

Please ee my retraction. I mistakenly thought you were referring to Emma's post. I should be flogged for posting without my thinking cap on.

Date: Feb 11, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Angeline
" "The red herring in all this is whatever is being done would adversely affect SACS and whatever is going to be done by this fall," Klumb said. "I'm disappointed that we've got this SACS (probation) and the name of SACS being loosely thrown around on the street down there. It's just something the commissioner has been charged to get with them and to the bottom of." "

Y'all 'scuse me for getting back to the origins of this thread, but the above quotation from Roy Klumb has got me baffled and bumfuzzled. Is he saying something that I am just to stupid to understand, or is he just one of the dumbest creatures alive walking on two legs?

Date: Feb 11, 2005

Yeah, I know: "too stupid."

Date: Feb 11, 2005

When in May does Newton take over? I know some of you have questions about her real loyalty to USM, but at least she's not an embarrassing idiot like Klumb.