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USM Forum -- Message Board -> AAUP-USM MESSAGE BOARD -> College of Business -- Set the Record Straight
Post Info TOPIC: College of Business -- Set the Record Straight
Adam Smith's Abacus' Placement

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College of Business -- Set the Record Straight
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A couple of things to help set the record straight about the CoB and USM:

First, the CoB faculty have never been on SFT's side. Former Dean Gunther was one of the most outspoken critics of Thames, and his opposition earned him a demotion. CoB Faculty Senators have been outspoken in their opposition of Thames, both in newspapers, TV, and in public forums. Current Dean Doty has obviously turned a table or two on the regime. While not as outspoken as, say, CoAL, CoB faculty have supported the "cause" from day 1 through their votes in convocations and by voting with their feet.

Some on this board continue to make statements to the effect of "Now they see what it's like." or "Maybe now they'll get on board." These statements are, at face value, ignorant and are revealing of some posters' understanding of the university.

The CoB has chosen to oppose when necessary and to wait until a "clear shot" can be taken -- a "kill shot" that will do more than just spook the target. What did ED have to say about their removal from the CoB? Did they say "All of the faculty like us! It's just Doty that hates us!"? No. CoB faculty fought the anti-ED fight from the day ED moved into Green Hall until the day ED left. It's easy to be anti-Thames. You don't have to see him daily and you almost never have to talk to him (or avoid talking to him). Have you thought about how hard it was to keep up the anti-ED campaign day after day, having those people in their building? Fighting for higher standards, for a real curriculum, for admissions policies above "Pulse?" and "Did the check clear?" Now CoB is reaping the benefits of having standards.

The CoB faculty hasn't been oppositional to AAUP, Glamser/Stringer, etc. Why all this negativism toward those who have done no wrong to this cause?

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LVN

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As noted on another thread, I sincerely hope that nothing I have posted comes across as being "anti" COB. I hope the people who are waking up now are COB ALUMNI; one does not get the impression that they have been aware of the situation like alumni of COAL and other colleges.
I know of one COB prof in particular who has been very brave.

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I'm bAAAck

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Wow Adam Smith
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Did you write the "Wealth of Nations?"

You took that page "right off my playbook"

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Adam Smith's Abacus' Placement

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RE: College of Business -- Set the Record Straight
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I was just open under the basket and hoped someone would pass me the ball.

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I'm bAAAck

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WTH
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wow, I hit the send button, and lo and behold, LVN has followed me here before my post showed up.

Adam is so right, however, and I am dismayed at the anti CoB people like LVN, though they think we are OK now that we know how it feels to be demeaned.

We in CoB know better.



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Corn CoB Pipe

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RE: College of Business -- Set the Record Straight
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I don't think LVN has been anti-CoB, and she's right that CoB alumni have been silent, but that's not because they don't know what's going on. Faculty have been conveying the message for some time, and the alumni can read the papers. However, I just think they don't know what to do. They see those who oppose Thames getting nowhere and may be waiting for their opportunity to act in a decisive way.

Again, i don't think LVN is being anti-CoB faculty.

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I"m bAAAck

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Corn Cob

Right. Maybe on the CoB alums. The BAC is turning more negative but they remain totally silent. I know that former Dean and AACSB originator Joseph Greene, for whom the building is named, is turing in his grave, God rest his soul.

Everything that took decades to build is in shambles and getting worse by the day.

As to defending LVN, I have not posted in many moons, but I have followed LVN posts and last week I detected a severe condescending attitude, but I agreed on another post to drop it and herewith it is dropped, so any more mention of it I will ignore. Her words speak for themselves, and others too. They will learn later the truth of CoB and how we have had it worse than all the rest.

Maybe we can have a contest, or a poll...."which college has suffered more under SFT"

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LVN

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Permalink Closed

Thanks for defending me, Corn CoB Pipe. I give up. This person can contact me personally if they wish, I'm not responding to them anymore on the board. They've made up their mind about me. Having already apologized twice, there's nothing more I can say.

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stephen judd

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This doesn't do us much good folks.


Everyone acts out of a varying combination of self-interest and loyalty to a set of personal ethics and ideals -- including those of us in CoAL. It may be true that many CoAL faculty were among the first to most publically oppose the regime and point out its potential dangers -- but that also had to do with the belief that we were going to be particularly targetted as well as our obligation to promote our belief in a certain "vision" of what defines a university. I think that is fine: it would be sad if a school that contained the arts, philosophy and many disciplines that deal explicitly with the study of human values would not be the first to raise such concerns. That doesn't make us better from our other colleagues -- it simply means that we are doing what we should be doing in a university setting.


I've watched Senators from all disciplines wrestle with the appropriate stand to take as things have evolved. All have acted out of that same sense of wrestling with weighing the combination of the ideals and pragmatism and personal obligation.  We reach our conclusions at different rates depending on our vantage points, and depending on how near we are to the carnage of the moment. None of us have the right to claim clearer vision, greater courage, or higher principles. These are arguments that only produce division at a time when unity is most needed.


There are times when remembering history is important -- like counting up the number of times this faculty has been the target of malevolent decisions or incompetent actions. And there are times when history is a barrier to unity. We need to stop counting up our medals and weighing our losses as methods of legitimizing our actions past or present. We need to concentrate on our our common purpose and that is regime chnage -- the sooner the better, while there is still a university left standing.



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Amy Young

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Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"This doesn't do us much good folks. Everyone acts out of a varying combination of self-interest and loyalty to a set of personal ethics and ideals -- including those of us in CoAL. It may be true that many CoAL faculty were among the first to most publically oppose the regime and point out its potential dangers -- but that also had to do with the belief that we were going to be particularly targetted as well as our obligation to promote our belief in a certain "vision" of what defines a university. I think that is fine: it would be sad if a school that contained the arts, philosophy and many disciplines that deal explicitly with the study of human values would not be the first to raise such concerns. That doesn't make us better from our other colleagues -- it simply means that we are doing what we should be doing in a university setting. I've watched Senators from all disciplines wrestle with the appropriate stand to take as things have evolved. All have acted out of that same sense of wrestling with weighing the combination of the ideals and pragmatism and personal obligation.  We reach our conclusions at different rates depending on our vantage points, and depending on how near we are to the carnage of the moment. None of us have the right to claim clearer vision, greater courage, or higher principles. These are arguments that only produce division at a time when unity is most needed. There are times when remembering history is important -- like counting up the number of times this faculty has been the target of malevolent decisions or incompetent actions. And there are times when history is a barrier to unity. We need to stop counting up our medals and weighing our losses as methods of legitimizing our actions past or present. We need to concentrate on our our common purpose and that is regime chnage -- the sooner the better, while there is still a university left standing. "

Well stated, as usual, Stephen.


We must all remember that within ANY university with good faculty that there will be a diversity of opinions and ways of expressing those opinions.  Ultimately, as we've seen again and again on this campus through various votes of no confidence, we agree on the most important principles of higher education.


It is possible (and good) to have a variety of opinions and ideas.  And when we can hear all of them, we can sort through those ideas and choose the best possible way of achieving our goals. 


Let's not forget what we are fighting for:  quality in higher education.


Amy Young



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Scientist

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Well said Stephen and Amy.  As a CoST faculty member, I'm embarrassed for what one of our faculty had done to USM.  Sorry.  CoST faculty are doing our part in trying to fix things and appreciate that CoAL and CoB are not pointing fingers at us. Many of us came through Colleges of Arts and Science and would love to return to such a college where Philosophy and Science are discussed together.

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Green Hornet

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RE: RE: RE: College of Business -- Set the Record
Permalink Closed

quote:
Originally posted by: Amy Young
"
Well stated, as usual, Stephen.
We must all remember that within ANY university with good faculty that there will be a diversity of opinions and ways of expressing those opinions.  Ultimately, as we've seen again and again on this campus through various votes of no confidence, we agree on the most important principles of higher education.
It is possible (and good) to have a variety of opinions and ideas.  And when we can hear all of them, we can sort through those ideas and choose the best possible way of achieving our goals. 
Let's not forget what we are fighting for:  quality in higher education.
Amy Young"


We're also fighting for our campus, our institution and for the future of Southern Miss
What Amy said above is what defines a UNIVERSITY and it FACULTY and the FREEDOM to express IDEAS, CONCEPTS and EDUCATE the students that come to Southern Miss

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