HA story about COB - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Feb 9, 2005

HA story about COB

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Please tell us who are far removed from the Hattiesburg American's circulation area something about the content that article.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

More, more, more - how do you like it?

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Here's the link with another link to the infamous letter: http://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050209/NEWS01/502090313/1002

Date: Feb 9, 2005

So, after quickly reading the article and letter, my take on this is that Doty cares about academic quality and accreditation and the Administration does not. If all future hires in CoB have to come from local businesses, as Grimes's letter suggested, then all CoB faculty should quit now and just go to work in private business where you will make more money for less work anyway. Why teach and put up with the crap here? Oh - you care about education and students, not just helping local businesses make more money? Silly me. We need to hear publicly now from more CoB faculty about why Grimes's (the Administration's) plans are crap - I'm afraid John Q. Public may not get it.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Kevin Walters and the HA deserve a great deal of credit for going into this kind of detail regarding this kind of story. I can say with confidence that my local paper would never devote this kind of attention to such a matter. Kudos to Kevin and his editors!

Date: Feb 9, 2005

Grimes wrote that since the College of Business does not grant doctorates, faculty members should not focus on theoretical research but applied research "that is of interest to our local and regional customers."

This is an outragious statement. Even the better small liberal colleges put a premium on basic research conducted by their faculty members. This mandate is, in my opinion, clearly an abridgment of academic freedom. Faculty members should be free to engage in any legitimate research as long as it is legal, ethical, and moral. Does this mean all USM departments that don't offer the doctorate should cease and decist from conducting basic research? Is research that is of "interest" to others be the only type of research to be conducted? If so, there would undoubtedly be lots of research on sex. What nonse nse.

He also said all new faculty members should have "relevant private sector experience . . ."

Private sector experience? More nonsense. USM is a public institution. As a taxpayer, I believe a public institution should devote itself to public service rather than to self service. Public service experience and private sector experience can each be valuable.

I am stunned by both of these statements. USM is in more trouble than I had imagined even in my wildest dreams.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

From the article:

Grimes said he grew frustrated with Doty in a conversation about the success of other hybrid programs which he views as the university's competitors in South Mississippi.

"He's always thrown up the accreditation roadblock," Grimes said of Doty.

Competitors mentioned in a letter to Doty included William Carey College and the University of Phoenix. Neither have accreditation from the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business.

Grimes said he told Doty "What do we need it for?" in discussing the college's accreditation.

"I did that as somewhat of a shock to him," Grimes said. "'Harold, what's wrong here?'"

Grimes said he does not want the College of Business to lose its accreditation. Instead, he wants to energize Doty and the college.

At no time have I ever suggested that we no longer be accredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business," Grimes said. "I'm going to start working with faculty in the College of Business to assure them that we care about them and are prepared financially to take it to the next level."

I don't even know where to begin...

1) "accreditation roadblock"--this sounds like it came right out of SFT's mouth. Grimes is certainly towing the party line. Too bad they can't get rid of that pesky accreditation monkey on their back!

2) Grimes contradicts himself when he says that he never "suggested that we no longer be accredited by the AACSB." He said it in the paragraphs right above this quote! More double-speak.

3) Grimes wants to "shock" Doty into submission??? I can't believe he used this language. What sort of non-shared governance is this?

4) Grimes says he wants to "take it to the next level." Hey, Jay, there's no Tier 5...what "next level" could you be talking about? The Univ. of Phoenix level?

I think that the Faculty Senate needs to consider a no-confidence vote in Jay Grimes immediately.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

What is insufficiently covered in Walters' article is that USM is currently under probation for deficiencies in the way it evaluates distance learning. A "hybrid" EMBA program is distance learning, no matter how many times Grimes calls it "continuing education."

Doty may be barking up the wrong tree with AACSB accreditation. It's obvious that Grimes is perfectly willing to keep raising the "what is the advantage" argument as long as Carey enrolls a single MBA student in its unaccredited program. (The reasons that some students are enrolled in the Carey program are directly related to the fact that it's unaccredited by AACSB, but if USM decides to go down that pike, it's admitting that "volume" is more important that being demonstrably equal to Jackson State.)

Doty needs to be barking up the SACS tree. He is also not being proactive on the EMBA front. All he needs is a basic cost-benefit analysis to demonstrate that a hybrid distance learning program populated by part-time graduate students is not likely to be a "very lucrative profit center."

If he's unable to find anyone on the CoB staff who can generate such an analysis, I'll be happy to do it for him. For a "nominal" consulting fee based on "industry standards" in his field

Date: Feb 9, 2005

I agree with Truth4USM's analysis.

But when the Senate considers a resolution of no confidence in Jay Grimes, it should simultaneously consider a resolution of no confidence in Ken Malone. Don't let Malone hide behind Grimes on this one.

Note that at the January 21st meeting that Grimes' letter purportedly nets out, Ken Malone was present. Guess who's going to be running that Executive MBA program, if they get it launched? And guess who wants to make sure CoB is punished for requesting that the Economic Development programs be removed from the College?

Also note the last item on the meeting agenda:

AACSB Update

This agenda item was not discussed.

Gee, I wonder why not?

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 9, 2005

The COB has done, many times, the analysis of the potential benefit to USM of having an executive MBA program. The only way it is lucrative is to have tuition like Tulane (which, by the way offers such a program) of $53,000 and change for an 18 month program with alternative weekends. Almost anyone who has been part of the administration in the COB over the past decade can provide such analysis from their files.

Methinks Thames/Grimes have stomped on their body parts in this exchange.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

I was at the meeting and Doty supported the distance learning MBA. He talked abouthis work on one at Syracuse.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

As Invictus notes, Dean Doty does need to be emphasizing SACS. Not because AACSB accreditation doesn't matter, but because deaccreditation by SACS will bring the entire university down... and the Grimes memo makes it obvious to all that Thames is pressing for a new program, in an area where SACS has found a deficiency, in the teeth of a SACS consultant telling the administration that starting new programs while on probation is "inadvisable."

Robert Campbell

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"I agree with Truth4USM's analysis. But when the Senate considers a resolution of no confidence in Jay Grimes, it should simultaneously consider a resolution of no confidence in Ken Malone. Don't let Malone hide behind Grimes on this one. Note that at the January 21st meeting that Grimes' letter purportedly nets out, Ken Malone was present. Guess who's going to be running that Executive MBA program, if they get it launched? And guess who wants to make sure CoB is punished for requesting that the Economic Development programs be removed from the College? Also note the last item on the meeting agenda: AACSB Update This agenda item was not discussed. Gee, I wonder why not? Robert Campbell"

I concur with Robert. Ken Malone, the chair with no tenure and job-snowballer par excellence, has got to go.

Date: Feb 9, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"As Invictus notes, Dean Doty does need to be emphasizing SACS. Not because AACSB accreditation doesn't matter, but because deaccreditation by SACS will bring the entire university down... and the Grimes memo makes it obvious to all that Thames is pressing for a new program, in an area where SACS has found a deficiency, in the teeth of a SACS consultant telling the administration that starting new programs while on probation is "inadvisable." Robert Campbell"

Only one letter was referenced.