Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confidence - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confidence

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Plus " and they don't have the responsibility and bother of being any part of decision making."

Date: Jan 29, 2005

I was absolutely STRUCK by his comments about how we should all be happy because we're making more money now, as though that were all that matters. Is he capable of understanding that it isn't all about the money? I know how he is and how he thinks, but it just floored me once again to see him say that. He just doesn't get it, does he?

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Rudy Kazootie
"He just doesn't get it"

Mr. Wonderful - of all our eloquent words, this is what it comes down to!

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Everything is now boiled down to one thing: money. Since it is all about money everywhere you go, little things like freedom of speech, fairness, due process, rule of law, and idea property should not matter. Because we get more money. They are talking about apples; we are talking about oranges. No wonder no thoughts are exchanged. How do you communicate with a university that only thinks of money?

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Actually, after you control for inflation, most faculty and staff probably are not making significantly more (and some may be making less) today than in 2002. If you include the dramatic increase in health care costs, we are probably all making less than we made in 2002. Seems like we probably are worse off just in monetary terms.

We have the second slowest enrollment growth rate in the state. Our enrollment growth rate was well below the state average. This doesn't seem to be a great indicator of success.

If you actually look at the trend line in USM funded research, we are not doing so well. The growth rate in our funded research has declined dramatically since Thames took office. It appears that the ham-handed approach doesn't stimulate research productivity after all.

If you don't spin the numbers, they don't paint such a nice picture.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

I can't wait to see how The Sun Herald covers this story in Sunday's paper. Do you think it may be ignored? My bet is they will have an interview with SFT and Roy Klumb criticizing the "lazy faculty trouble makers" and nothing from Faculty Senate except the words "No Confidence".

Date: Jan 29, 2005

By the numbers,

Can you display the trend lines (for grant-funded research, etc.) here? Or, if that is too much of a pain technically, point us to places where they can be seen?

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 29, 2005

by the numbers will probably have to display them. access to the appropriate reports are limited to on-campus computers.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: We don't get it
"Everything is now boiled down to one thing: money. Since it is all about money everywhere you go, little things like freedom of speech, fairness, due process, rule of law, and idea property should not matter. Because we get more money. They are talking about apples; we are talking about oranges. No wonder no thoughts are exchanged. How do you communicate with a university that only thinks of money? "

It has always, always, always been about the money.

During his interviews even, it was all about money. He took any question, no matter what the topic, and related it to money. That is absolutely all he cares about.

He thought that saying "I want to create millionaires" in the faculty ranks would be motivational and would pull peaple to his side. That yearning on Thames' part is a motivation to absolutely no colleague of mine. It's all bunk. Which one of you on this board studied all those years and did all this work hoping that one day it would lead to you becoming a millionaire?

There are so many other motivations in work and in life that don't relate at all to the dollar. A person of greater character would embrace that. Lucas certainly would understand that. I hope that a year or so from now we will have someone else in place who understands that as well. After this 3-year war, can you imagine the joy of having someone in place who we could all get behind?! What a thought!

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RC:

It would take me a while to dig up those data, but I know that an officer of the AAUP has the data. Perhaps the AAUP leadership would be a better source -- I doubt that I can lay my hands on anything until sometime next week. Please remember that the total dollars in funded research has continued to go up slowly, it is the growth rate that has decreased. This is a subtle argument that many people will miss.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

: Cut to the Chase

Date: 2 hr, 5 min. ago
Views: 117

quote:

Originally posted by: Rudy Kazootie
"He just doesn't get it"

Mr. Wonderful - of all our eloquent words, this is what it comes down to!

________________________________________

Duly noted.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: BTN
"RC: It would take me a while to dig up those data, but I know that an officer of the AAUP has the data. Perhaps the AAUP leadership would be a better source -- I doubt that I can lay my hands on anything until sometime next week. Please remember that the total dollars in funded research has continued to go up slowly, it is the growth rate that has decreased. This is a subtle argument that many people will miss."

BTN,

Thanks. I realized it might take a while.

The rate of growth is important. As universities get more oriented toward grant-funded research, grant and contract funding tends to move up no matter who is in charge.

But if Thames' constant pressure on the faculty for grant funding and his administrative expansions (allegedly done to promote grant funding) were successful, they would translate into an accelerated rate of growth.

Robert Campbell

Date: Jan 29, 2005

As an alumnus, I find the very fact that the Faculty Senate is willing to consider another no-confidence vote to be very encouraging, because it tells me that most faculty have not become utterly cynical & still believe that somewhere, someone will listen to them.

Sadly, I suspect that after the vote next week (if it actually takes place), the reaction from IHL will seal the deal on cyncism & hopelessness. I hope I am wrong, but my gut feeling is that any no-confidence vote will have about the same impact as spitting into the wind.

I won't say it takes "courage" for the Faculty Senate to vote no confidence. But it does take some faith that such a vote might mean something outside the confines of the room in which it takes place.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Sometimes people spit into the wind because it's the right thing to do. During WWII the Jews went off quietly to their deaths because the overwhelming might of the Nazis made resistance appear futile. Since then they've said "never again."

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Invictus
"As an alumnus, I find the very fact that the Faculty Senate is willing to consider another no-confidence vote to be very encouraging, because it tells me that most faculty have not become utterly cynical & still believe that somewhere, someone will listen to them. Sadly, I suspect that after the vote next week (if it actually takes place), the reaction from IHL will seal the deal on cyncism & hopelessness. I hope I am wrong, but my gut feeling is that any no-confidence vote will have about the same impact as spitting into the wind. I won't say it takes "courage" for the Faculty Senate to vote no confidence. But it does take some faith that such a vote might mean something outside the confines of the room in which it takes place."

Maybe the faculty just hope to send a message to the IHL that they will work their A$$'$ off to correct SACS problems, but it is their moral obligation to inform IHL (and the public) that another term for SFT will certainly sink this ship. Faculty want to hear that "Hope is on the way". There is reason to believe the IHL also sees itself (and the system) heading for some rocks and the need for a course correction.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Having Hope
" Maybe the faculty just hope to send a message to the IHL that they will work their A$$'$ off to correct SACS problems, but it is their moral obligation to inform IHL (and the public) that another term for SFT will certainly sink this ship. Faculty want to hear that "Hope is on the way". There is reason to believe the IHL also sees itself (and the system) heading for some rocks and the need for a course correction."

If every senior faculty member wrote the above message to one IHL Board member and copied it to the others we might stand a better chance . . . . right now the messages that the faculty has sent through votes of no confidence, etc. are being spun by attacking faculty institututions. I think the board might have a harder time ignoring the brain trust of the university communicating individually -- and it would give ammunition to the growing number of Board members who are skeptical that this administration has a future. This campaign won;t be won with an atom bomb but through a series of speicific actions happening at all levels -- individual, small group; institutional.

The Board needs to believe that the university truly is threatened -- that the tide of faculty leaving will become a flood if this administration is renewed. The objective now is to not just to chnage this administration now -- but to prevent it's reauthorization. The Board needs to believe that renewing this President will destroy the institution.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

When Horace Flemming was given a one year contract renewal, he left immediately. Assuming (and I do know the risks) that SFT is given only one more year, what are the chances that he will leave immediately? Or, will he will spend the year doing further damage, knowing that he has nothing more to lose -- that there will be no tomorrow for him as president?

Date: Jan 29, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: ram
"When Horace Flemming was given a one year contract renewal, he left immediately. Assuming (and I do know the risks) that SFT is given only one more year, what are the chances that he will leave immediately? Or, will he will spend the year doing further damage, knowing that he has nothing more to lose -- that there will be no tomorrow for him as president?"

I don't see SFT doing this. He is a local boy. He and his family live here and have their lives invested in USM. It's sad to say but if SFT was not SFT, he could have been the ideal president for USM. As Bobby Chain once pointed out, SFT just doesn't have the temperament for a college president. He would have been a great CEO back in the old days before management learned how to motivate people outside of the “plantation system".

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: RE: RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confid

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confidence

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: RE: RE: RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confid

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confidence

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Don't be dissing my man, sooey. We relate to one another. It's about the money, honey.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: RE: RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confid

Date: Jan 29, 2005

RE: Fac. Senate Consider Vote of No Confidence

Date: Jan 29, 2005

It is unlikely that an IHL board president has any more or any less power than any of the other board members. Presiding at meetings is not what I would consider to be terrribly influential. Not even a name on the door or a Bigelow on the floor. Don't count on a new board president to be our salvation solely by virtue of that role.

Date: Jan 29, 2005

At least it won't be a non-stop diet of Roy Klumb quotes. I just hope we will see statements in the press by someone who, foil or not, doesn't overtly hate USM. In that sense she could be an asset.
And I haven't seen much from Ms. Robinson in a while. She was very outspoken at the beginning of her term -- what's going on with her?

Date: Jan 29, 2005

Doesn't the president of the IHL board set the agenda? If so, Virginia Newton could at least keep the attention on SFT should she so choose.

I have heard that Ms. Robinson missed the last couple of meetings. Seems like someone told me she did not even let the other board members know she would not be in attendance. Maybe I'm wrong. Chalk this up to rumor. Even if it's true, I doubt it has much significance.