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Originally posted by: Bait and Switch
"I have heard recently that Ken Malone is about to take over Continuing Education at USM.  Last night someone told me that this story was a bait and switch tactic, and that Malone was about the be named Provost instead.  The reasoning I was told is very similar to something I read here the other day --- SFT is trying to manufacture qualifications for Malone so that he might succeed him next year and keep the train running.  Klumb and part of IHL are also on board with this plan."

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We should be so lucky. A move like that would completely expose the corruption amd intellectual bankruptcy of this administration. Malone not only does not have the credentials in the most practical sense -- he is NOT an academic. The whole  #!*#**# point of having a Provost is as a chief ACADEMIC officer -- particularly these days as Presidents are more and more likely to have thin academic credentials.

I'm actually wishing people would encourage Shelby to do this . . .

Incidently, do your sources say how this move will be made while there is a standing search committee for Provost?

 

Malone as Provost???!!!  Hmm, he already tells Jay Grimes what to do.

If SFT is trying to set up an heir apparent, it would make some sense.

On the other hand, making Malone Provost would put the spotlight on the Economic Development story, the Executive MBA plans, and other stuff that SFT and his backers are desperate to avoid media exposure on.

As for making him Provost while there's a standing search committee for the position... I wish I could say that was an impediment, but we all know that under Thames it isn't.

Robert Campbell

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Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"scm, You may be right about Malone taking over Continuing Education. But leaving for-credit activities to the academics?  You have to be kidding.  Ken Malone of all people has no regard for that particular principle. Robert Campbell"

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The Malone as head of CIE seems generally known and confirmed but not yet announced.

As a good friend reminded me, CIE is a Center and as such is a hybrid animal. It isn't unusual for such entitities to be organized outside the straight line academic structure. The courses, technically, would still fall under academics (grad council; academic council, etc.) but the head administrator does not necessarily have to be in a academic chain of command.

 

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Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Stephen, Some universities do put Centers outside of the Provost's area (i.e., academics). I've yet to see any indication that this is a good idea. In any case, the question remains. Why would anyone expect Malone to go through the Academic Council and the Graduate Council on course and curriculum issues? Robert Campbell"

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I'm not comfortable with any course being taught that falls outside the academic structure. I think AC and GC are not in a mood to have this happen. There are a lot of surly people on both councils right now and it would not be a good time for anyone to try that . . .  the ExMBA has the antennae fluttering and the claws snapping.

 

i will print this degree out with honor!

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Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"i know bill powell has heard the malone / continuing education story. i think it is true. i've also heard that one action malone wants to take is to get CE out of the "for credit" business. may not be such a bad idea--keep it poodle grooming and dog training. leave the for credit business to academics."

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I agree, they have no business in the academic world.  Hopefully this change will come about.

KM really doesn't matter. I'm sure he's the best man for the job. Remember: not everything that happens on SFT's watch is bad.

You are all missing the point. Continuing Education makes money. It's not about academics -- it's about a cash cow. $$$$$$$$$$$$

You know the new building was paid for in part by CE's own revenues. That's one reason (we were told) a lot of us couldn't have a fair salary or any raises. So now the people who worked and paid for the building have to give it up?? Why I am not surprised??

As for the "poodle grooming" -- well those courses filled a real need in the community and were a source of good revenue. However, correspondence and other CE credit activities also furnish a service and provide revenue.

Here's the plan I see -- put KM in charge of CE, rearrange it so that the money is flowing into the academic departments and then put KM in charge of the academic departments.

This just fries me.

A number of respected universities offer correspondence, online and other continuing ed courses. THEY MEET A NEED!! Troops in Bosnia, Korea, etc. cannot take online courses. Prisoners cannot take online courses. People in Lumberton cannot easily take online courses (no cable modem or DSL in some places). A lot of people want and need to be educated. That is our business as a "real university" --

The difference is that schools like Memphis, Pennsylvania, Florida, et. al. treat their distance education in a much more professional manner than USM. They give their programs the resources (PhD level educators who help develop good courses) they need. In fact, your beloved MSU offers correspondence courses.

Did I say that they make money? They make money.

I'm quite sure that the bulk of those overseas don't pay taxes in MS, and I'm pretty sure that convicts don't, so I can't see how you'd sell that to Mr. and Mrs. Mississippi who pay a whole lot of tax $$ to the state each year, some of which goes for universities. Furthermore, how can we justify having such programs when we cannot even afford to buy new books for the library, continue journal subscriptions for professors' research, or keep our in-class student-teacher ratio to a respectable number? It's crazy how much we care about serving mankind when we can't even serve the needs of the students who care enough to be full-time enrollees.

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I don't care how much money CE makes, it's still crap. Put it in a shiny new building, and it's still crap. I know full well how students pay for these courses, and for the most part, we're selling credits. Let me ask you: How do you monitor cheating in a CE class? How can you make sure that the student is really the one doing the work? You can't. There's no way. You may request that exams be proctored, but I know that proctored exams are little better than no barrier to cheating. I've seen it happen with my own two eyes.

Also, I know what a "cash cow" is, and it's just one more way for Thames to rake dollars into his pocket. Give away degrees, take the money, give it to your friends and family for raises and "contracts."

Since you're the one who brought up economics, let's see how good you are. Economics is the study of the allocation of scarce resources. Time and money are both scarce resources. It follows that it has nothing to do with "luck" when someone is a full-time student; it has to do with decision-making and allocation of scarce resources. A full-time student has chosen to allocate his or her time to getting an education and foregoing other activities, like employment, marriage, family, etc., in favor of going to school. Those who choose to go to school part-time have, at some point in their lives, made decisions that preclude them from attending full-time. It boild down to priorities. Those who go full-time have made education their priority. Those who go part-time have other priorities, right or wrong. With Pell Grants, student loans, scholarships, and other types of financial assistance, anyone who is willing to rearrange his or her priorities has the opportunity to attend college full-time, as long as they make it a priority. Unfortunately, many make poor decisions that limit their ability to take advantage of these opportunities, but it all boils down to allocation of resources.

Again, my question: How can you justify shortchanging those who have made it their first priority to attend college in favor of any other groups? Unless you're a socialist, you cannot. If you are a socialist, then I have less respect for you, because socialism has been proven to be a flawed experiment.

It's been implied in several posts on this thread that if Ken Malone takes over Continuing Education, he will give up one or more of his other job titles.

Is there any reason to believe that he will be called on to shed his roles as Chair of Economic Development or "Chief Operating Officer" at GC?

Since he has exhibited zero regard for the normal way of running an academic program while in charge of Economic Development, why should anyone expect him to behave any differently when he adds Continuing Education to his portfolio?

Robert Campbell

CE does not really make a profit.  Almost all the "profit" from CE is really made from current USM students who take an online class in addition to the traditional classes.  CE gets to retain almost 80% of the tuition revenue from online for credit classes.  I bet every department wished it had such a sweet deal -- we could afford travel expenses and sabbaticals!  When the credit classes revert to the colleges, and CE has to live on the revenue it generates from non-credit classes, it will have very little money.  Unfortunately, Shelboo will be taking all the tuition revenue.

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Originally posted by: LVN
"At the time I was manager of Independent Study, most of our students were not USM students. We did pay our own way and make a profit, which got sucked up for the new building. I wish I could give you figures, and please forgive me if I have forgotten some of the details. Also at that time, our credit hour production did not accrue anywhere -- it just disappeared into the ozone. After IS was put on the university system (a nightmare) our credit hour production began to accrue to the departments. I assume the same is true of online. However, what I don't understand is the way USM uses credit hour production. At my previous school, it was a critically important factor in a department's funding. Also, enrollment in correspondence and online courses contributes to total enrollment (again assuming that USM figures FTE like everybody else does. ) Oh, thanks webmaster for deleting the comment about me. Actually, "pompous twit" would have sufficed. I'm still chuckling over that poster's thought that I might be a socialist!! (Try blue-haired old lady Republican, dearie.) "

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IHL is "supposed" to use credit hour production in their funding forumula for distribution of funds.  However, Southern Miss has never been funded according to the formula.  We traditionally generate more credit hours than any of the other schools, or may be second to MSU some years.

The "new" board formula is also supposed to use credit hours but somehow ties it into faculty salaries.  I'm not sure how that is supposed to work but I would think it would be something that AAUP or Faculty Senate should take an interest in.