USM vs Alabama - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Dec 12, 2004

USM vs Alabama

Date: Dec 12, 2004

As I've noted on another thread, the FIRST step to getting Auburn off probation came when the governor of Alabama fired the former president of Auburn and installed a replacement whose main task was to get Auburn off probation. Hailey Barbour, are you listening? If so, please pass the word along to Roy Klumb et al.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: USM Sympathizer
"As I've noted on another thread, the FIRST step to getting Auburn off probation came when the governor of Alabama fired the former president of Auburn and installed a replacement whose main task was to get Auburn off probation. Hailey Barbour, are you listening? If so, please pass the word along to Roy Klumb et al."

Folks, this is a very astute rebuttal to all the Shelby supporters who are citing Auburn's release from probation. USM Sympathizer, we have missed you.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

USM sympathizer--i think you've got it wrong. if the governor of alabama fired the president of auburn, that is a direct violation of SACS standards. i don't think it happened. If Barbour were to try it here, put a fork in USM with SACS because we're done. It would also violate the state constitution. The IHL is constitutionally created and they hire and fire presidents. Bilbo tried it once and SACS dinged him.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"USM sympathizer--i think you've got it wrong. if the governor of alabama fired the president of auburn, that is a direct violation of SACS standards. i don't think it happened. If Barbour were to try it here, put a fork in USM with SACS because we're done. It would also violate the state constitution. The IHL is constitutionally created and they hire and fire presidents. Bilbo tried it once and SACS dinged him."

Actually it wasn't SACs -- it was the AAUP. Ol Miss was the first school to get blackballed by the AAUP I believe and it was over this issue . . .

Date: Dec 12, 2004

stephen,

I don't know what the AAUP had to say about Governor Bilbo's arbitrary firings of professors and administrators (so he could reward his cronies with state jobs). It probably had a response... But SACS was in operation then and it deaccredited USM.

Robert Campbell

Date: Dec 12, 2004

stephen--it was SACS. As an interesting historical note, SACS has an important but relatively hidden role in the integration of Ole Miss.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"USM sympathizer--i think you've got it wrong. if the governor of alabama fired the president of auburn, that is a direct violation of SACS standards. i don't think it happened. If Barbour were to try it here, put a fork in USM with SACS because we're done. It would also violate the state constitution. The IHL is constitutionally created and they hire and fire presidents. Bilbo tried it once and SACS dinged him."

I can't believe that after OVERWHELMING votes of no confidence by the faculty and the faculty senate, outright lies to the press, a drop in the rankings, massive turnover in both faculty and administration, a complete disregard for the principles of shared governance, etc. that firing this president would be considered interference. It seems like the only responsible thing to do.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"stephen--it was SACS. As an interesting historical note, SACS has an important but relatively hidden role in the integration of Ole Miss."

SCM and Robert:

I stand corrected and will now take my place in the corner with my dunce hat on. Although the AAUP did censure Ol Miss . . .

Thanks for the history.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

all i'm saying is the governor can't do. He has no constitutional authority to do it and SACS wouldn't hear of it. Only the IHL can.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Let the academics govern
"I can't believe that after OVERWHELMING votes of no confidence by the faculty and the faculty senate, outright lies to the press, a drop in the rankings, massive turnover in both faculty and administration, a complete disregard for the principles of shared governance, etc. that firing this president would be considered interference. It seems like the only responsible thing to do."

Surely there must be a legitimate way to rid Mississippi of its current college board. Those Ole Miss lawyer-legislators surely realize what has happened to USM could happen to Ole Miss too.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"all i'm saying is the governor can't do. He has no constitutional authority to do it and SACS wouldn't hear of it. Only the IHL can."

Yep -- as bad as this situation is, I actually don't envy Alabama that they have a system the governor can step in and chnage. Now THAT is a system just asking for politcal corruption from the top down. Can you imagine a President resisting a Governor?

Our system may not be perfect, and the Board isn't completely politically independent, but at least it has the political capaicity (if not the will) to act independently on legislature or governor.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"all i'm saying is the governor can't do. He has no constitutional authority to do it and SACS wouldn't hear of it. Only the IHL can."

Ross Barnett would disagree. Remember him interpolating himself between the federal government and the doors of Ole Miss, through which James Meredith hoped to enter?

The governor may not have "constitutional authority" to step in now, but he sure as H3LL can twist arms of IHL board members.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

fs--if he does, and it can be proven, SACS will deal with the problem. i don't know if you saw my comment about the role that SACS played in the integration of Ole Miss. SACS was as instrumental as the federal marshalls. you don't mess with SACS.

Date: Dec 12, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"fs--if he does, and it can be proven, SACS will deal with the problem. i don't know if you saw my comment about the role that SACS played in the integration of Ole Miss. SACS was as instrumental as the federal marshalls. you don't mess with SACS."

I will try to remember to retrieve my copy of the SACS "centennial history" book tomorrow at the office & find the relevant passages. Of course, Barbour might decide that Klumb is right & try to pull an "Arkansas". (Arkansas seceded from SACS in the 1920s & joined North Central over accreditation of the University of Arkansas.)

Those of us who have endured multiple SACS reviews refer to North Central as "LACS". There is a reason that the University of Phoenix, Capella & Walden all accredit through North Central, even though they have big operations in Florida...

Date: Dec 12, 2004

SACS is considered one of the best regional accrediting agencies (i hear that from my friend who works there, although my experience in other areas suggest they take it more seriously than other regional accrediting agencies.

Date: Dec 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Let the academics govern
"I can't believe that after OVERWHELMING votes of no confidence by the faculty and the faculty senate, outright lies to the press, a drop in the rankings, massive turnover in both faculty and administration, a complete disregard for the principles of shared governance, etc. that firing this president would be considered interference. It seems like the only responsible thing to do."

KICK

Date: Dec 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Fire Shelby
" Ross Barnett would disagree. Remember him interpolating himself between the federal government and the doors of Ole Miss, through which James Meredith hoped to enter? The governor may not have "constitutional authority" to step in now, but he sure as H3LL can twist arms of IHL board members."

Kind of -- but not very hard. They don't owe him anything -- in fact I'd say that several of them are probably more in the dirver's seat than he is vis a vis politics. He is, after all, an elected governor in a state with weak governorshop institutionally.

Date: Dec 13, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"USM sympathizer--i think you've got it wrong. if the governor of alabama fired the president of auburn, that is a direct violation of SACS standards. i don't think it happened. If Barbour were to try it here, put a fork in USM with SACS because we're done. It would also violate the state constitution. The IHL is constitutionally created and they hire and fire presidents. Bilbo tried it once and SACS dinged him."

I should have made my point more clearly. In Alabama, the Governor is the ex-officio chair of the Auburn Board of Trustees. He doesn't have the legal right to fire the Auburn President (at least I don't think he does), but he met with the former president and the next day that president resigned and a new interim president was appointed by the Governor whose express purpose was to get Auburn off of SACS probation. He has done this (somewhat to the surprise of the faculty, since many of the underlying issues that caused probation in the first place are still not resolved). I was just hoping to suggest that if Barbour and other state leaders made their opposition to Shelby known (publicly or privately), the IHL might suddenly also decide that Shelby is no longer their man. However it happens, I hope that Shelby is gone soon. The present SACS mess is, I fear, just the tip of the iceberg. The only way USM will emerge with its accreditation -- and reputation -- restored is if Shelby is sent packing.

Date: Dec 13, 2004

A few items that the story left out are that the Auburn faculty senate voted no confidence in their president within days of being placed on probation. The following month the president was replaced with the state Superintendent of Education who was given a two year term to straighten things out.

Date: Dec 13, 2004

Yes, and the former president of Auburn had also managed to offend most of the football fans and other alumni by shabby treatment of the football coach. If only Shelby would commit a REAL misstep like that, rather than merely trampling all over the faculty and staff and destroying the school's academic reputation!