SFT's Gatsby parties - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Nov 6, 2004

SFT's Gatsby parties

Date: Nov 6, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Daisy
"I have heard at least 5 people refer to these parties as Gatsbyesque. Daughter Dana has them too - all to further their positions at USM. Well at least that's one way he supports those of us in East Hattiesburg. Big white tents, lots of pretty people, lots of us needing to earn a buck although we listen to what they say while their eating up their own importance.
Hey, Buck - thanks for pointing out this Board to me. I support our mayor. I don't support the AD"

Hey Daisy. Where are these parties?

Date: Nov 6, 2004

At their homes! Full of billowing white canopies, canapies, and canIbeanymorecondescending to those who have to serve. I'm working my way through school, so I smile real nice - say my no and yes mams and sirs hoping that I can serve them more. They give me big tips when I play nicey-nice. I don't believe that they know that I, and the others working with me, can hear, speak, see, or think.

Date: Nov 6, 2004

I've seen the tent behind the house on Jamestown Road.

Really, it is not unusal for college presidents to have numerous social functions--some schools even budget it for them, and some every pay their spouses for all the socializing they have to do. These parties are not usually for self-aggrandizement, but are mostly for cultivating community relationships and developing friendships with potential donors.

However, I recall that the white tent was up during the Stringer-Glamser hearings (though the party seems to have been before the hearings, as there was no party there the night of, that I could see.)

Do you think Johnny DuPree has ever been invited to one of these parties?

Date: Nov 6, 2004

i know for a fact he has invited.

Date: Nov 6, 2004

I haven't had the pleasure to serve Mr. DuPree yet via a Thames party, and I've been serving at these events for at least 6 years. When Miss Dana moved into her new digs close to her daddy's around 98 or 99- our business got even better. Thank goodness Miss Dana realized that life in Hattiesburg is better than life in Petal - but that could be her daughter had graduated out of the Petal Schools. There are lots of white tents that float out of her place too - do they float out of every chair of a deptartment's home? No one has asked me to serve at any of the other chairs' parties. I'd like too though. I need all the money I can get.

Date: Nov 6, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Daisy
" There are lots of white tents that float out of her place too - do they float out of every chair of a deptartment's home? No one has asked me to serve at any of the other chairs' parties. I'd like too though. I need all the money I can get."

I know lots of chairs in CoST and some others around campus. None have these kinds of parties. (Maybe I haven't been invited!)

Date: Nov 6, 2004

What?? All chairs are equal, some more equal than others. All budgets are equal. some more equal than others.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Daisy
"I haven't had the pleasure to serve Mr. DuPree yet via a Thames party, and I've been serving at these events for at least 6 years. When Miss Dana moved into her new digs close to her daddy's around 98 or 99- our business got even better. Thank goodness Miss Dana realized that life in Hattiesburg is better than life in Petal - but that could be her daughter had graduated out of the Petal Schools. There are lots of white tents that float out of her place too - do they float out of every chair of a deptartment's home? No one has asked me to serve at any of the other chairs' parties. I'd like too though. I need all the money I can get."

I can tell you that at least some of us chairs and directors can barely find the money to host events for our students let alone white tent events for other folks. Besides, with the exception of a few I suspect most chairs consider themselves faculty first and administrators second. Any politicizing we do tends to be a means to an end -- protecting or gaining support for our programs - rather than an end in itself.

Keep an eye on those chairs who are moving toward being "professional" chairs -- they are a different breed than those who serve as chairs with the knowlege (and hope) that they will one day return to the ranks of regular faculty.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

The old saw in higher education is you don't want anybody to be chair who wants to be chair.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Curmudgeon

"The old saw in higher education is you don't want anybody to be chair who wants to be chair."

Originally posted by: Stephen Judd

"Keep an eye on those chairs who are moving toward being "professional" chairs -- they are a different breed than those who serve as chairs with the knowlege they will one day return to the ranks of the regular faculty."

Curmudgeon and Stephen Judd are both right. A chair should be given five to seven years maximum to make their contributions. By then they have probably offered all they have to offer. Those with demonstrated achiements might possibly move "up" at their institution or move to another institution. Others should return to the faculty. The judgement as to whether or not the chair has made those "demonstrated achiements" should not made by the chair and most certainly not solely by the dean. There should be a periodic, formal, and meaningful periodic review (e.g., at five or seven years). The periodic review committee should include unbiased reviewers from outside the institution, and also from outside the department, as well as members from within the department. Other schools do this. USM has no such periodic, formal, and meaningful review. This model, used by other schools, doesn't mean a chair will necessarily last five or seven years, but it does reduce the likelihood that a deparment is stuck with a chair who relishes only "a title on the door and a bigelow on the floor."

Date: Nov 7, 2004

I've never heard of a "big white tent" party being put on by a department chair at Clemson--even in a much better heeled department, like, say, Mechanical Engineering.

Whether department chairs should be term-limited is the subject of an ongoing debate. I believe that where you come down on that will depend on the degree to which you think of chairing a department as a management responsibility.

But I think most on both sides would agree with Fruitbasket Turnover that department chairs should be periodically evaluated by their faculty. We have a process at Clemson for doing that every 5 years. We also have a process for evaluating deans every 5 years. We need (and other unversities need) such a procedure for evaluating the provost--but the previous provost vetoed it after the Faculty Senate adopted it, and the current Faculty Senate has been overly timid about the matter.

Robert Campbell

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
" We need (and other unversities need) such a procedure for evaluating the provost--"

Heck, if Provosts at USM got mid-term reviews, they'd have to be held every three months!

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Quarterly Review
"Heck, if Provosts at USM got mid-term reviews, they'd have to be held every three months!"

Actually last year the Senate sponsored departmental reviews of President and Provost as well as the annual evaluation of Deans and Chairs. We do not know the results because those results, like all personnel reviews, went to the each administrator's "boss". In the case of the Provost(s) the results went to the Presdient. In the case of the President the results went directly to the IHL.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stephen judd
"Actually last year the Senate sponsored departmental reviews of President and Provost as well as the annual evaluation of Deans and Chairs. We do not know the results because those results, like all personnel reviews, went to the each administrator's "boss". In the case of the Provost(s) the results went to the Presdient. In the case of the President the results went directly to the IHL. "

I don't know what procedure was used at USM last year, but the paper-pencil opinion surveys used by USM in the past to evaluate administrators was a waste of the paper they were printed on. They were, to say the least, amatuerish. USM needs a serious, periodic, unbiased, and meaningful review. This would not mean the chair's appointment would not be extended for another five or so years. If I am not mistaken, under the system I am talking about the recommendation at most institutions is typically that of extending the appointment. A chair can learn much from such a review.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

as a 20+ year faculty member I find the administrative evaluations useless. the questions don't ask (particularly for a chair or dean) questions that tap into those areas I find important to evaluate an administrator. i don't know the timing now, but in the old CLA, chairs were evaluated before the evaluations were processed. so much for their utility.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

No procedure for faculty evaluation of administrations is worth a damn unless there is a public report back to the faculty afterwards. We get serviceable reports about department chairs at Clemson; reports about the deans are sometimes accurate, though insufficiently detailed--and sometimes they are fried, because the upper administration has tampered with the process.

As for designing better questionnaires... a university with Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, Managing, and/or Marketing programs has no excuse for continuing to use poor ones.

Robert Campbell

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"
As for designing better questionnaires... a university with Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, Managing, and/or Marketing programs has no excuse for continuing to use poor ones.
Robert Campbell"

Unless of course, the administration doesn't really want to know how its political cronies are fairing.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"No procedure for faculty evaluation of administrations is worth a damn unless there is a public report back to the faculty afterwards. We get serviceable reports about department chairs at Clemson; reports about the deans are sometimes accurate, though insufficiently detailed--and sometimes they are fried, because the upper administration has tampered with the process. As for designing better questionnaires... a university with Psychology, Sociology, Political Science, Managing, and/or Marketing programs has no excuse for continuing to use poor ones. Robert Campbell"

All true: but a precedent was set that had not been there before. I'm not sure how to deal with the issue of reporting back on what is essentially a personnel matter. That is something I think FS never quite resolved and there was good deal of discussion about it. Imperfect yes: but the principal was established that faculty have the right to evaluate administrators. I don't know if that has ever happened here before -- even in this weakened version.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

arnold and robert--as i recall, these forms were designed and sent out by the faculty senate, not the administration. if they're poorly designed, blame the senate. they construct them. talk with people who could design better evaluations--right now faculty members seem to talk amongst themselves. don't consult their constituencies very much.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"arnold and robert--as i recall, these forms were designed and sent out by the faculty senate, not the administration. if they're poorly designed, blame the senate. they construct them. talk with people who could design better evaluations--right now faculty members seem to talk amongst themselves. don't consult their constituencies very much. "

USM's Faculty Senate has an Administration Evaluation Committee. All administrators from chairs to President were evaluated last year. The results are returned to the person evaluated and their superior. The forms used were designed by previous committees and are very good in my opinion. However, the instruments had to be approved by the senate 2 years ago before evaluation of Provost and President. However, when the management style is “ top – down” (plantation management), as long as you please your boss, the opinion of those under you doesn't matter.

I agree some senators don't consult their constituencies as much as they should. This has become more difficult when faculty are afraid to say anything via campus phone and email.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

psssst . . . who's going to tell Dana that her turn at chair is over???? After all, even while serving as chair, she was a key player as part of a 3 member prestigiously KEY committee who helped Shelby F. Thames address the issue of the lack of students majoring in science and math on a prominently national level. She has received numerous merit raises and Midas Touches for her tireless efforts in the USM a la Thames legacy.

STD (Save Thames Dana)

Date: Nov 7, 2004

reporter--the forms i've use haven't changed over the years. the FS drops the ball on the issue. i frankly don't think they have the competency to construct better forms. how the data is used is something i can't control.

as to senators consulting their constituencies--it has nothing to do with e-mail or phones. they serve themselves. a member is in my department--does nothing to consult people in the department. been this way for years. it's a sorry situation when i have to come to this message board to find out what is going on in the FS.

Date: Nov 7, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: stinky cheese man
"reporter--the forms i've use haven't changed over the years. the FS drops the ball on the issue. i frankly don't think they have the competency to construct better forms. how the data is used is something i can't control.
as to senators consulting their constituencies--it has nothing to do with e-mail or phones. they serve themselves. a member is in my department--does nothing to consult people in the department. been this way for years. it's a sorry situation when i have to come to this message board to find out what is going on in the FS."

I understand. We had the same problem in our dept. until we changed senators. I also know first hand how difficult it is to come up with a suitable evaluation instrument. It's relatively easy for one person, but a committee makes it more difficult and then the senate may want to revise the questions. At least the evaluation provides for written comments provided they are typed.