The Faculty Exodus - USM Forum -- Message Board

History · Status: Offline

The Faculty Exodus

Incredulous · Status: Offline

The data go back to 1996 so any Thames effect will be diluted. USM was still the worst of the big three by a wide margin. The late Nineties where a time of great cutbacks in state funding that affected all schools. Data from 2001 to the present would likely show the effect of Thames' legendary management skills.

qwerty · Status: Offline

Is anyone surprised that they are not fairly paid as faculty members at a Mississippi university?

Wages and per capita income are lowest in Mississippi, so why shouldn't salaries be lowest as well? (In fact, Miss. ranks 41 among the states in average public univ. salary). It is unreasonable to expect the state to increase its rank relative to other states in terms of salaries or overall investment in higher education. The state doesn't want to tax itself to support higher education.

Faculty who feel undervalued need to seek opportunities elsewhere. That's why so many have left USM. In my field USM and Ole Miss are famous for being places where one gets his or her first job, publishes, and moves on.

Thames introduced a high level of cronyism and nepotism in salary matters, but the underlying problem of low pay predate his tenure. This is well known, and anyone accepting a position at a Mississippi university is assuming the risk of low pay down the road.

My point is that if you need more money, you need to polish your c.v. and hit the job market. Its the only reliable way to increase your salary, no matter where you teach.

Cossack · Status: Offline

The exodus of faculty is both a push and a pull issue. Higher salaries pull mostly quality faculty to other universities which usually are out of state. These usually are the most productive faculty, usually in terms of research, and leave USM and other universities in Mississippi with the residual faculty. The residual is made up of the less than competent and those who have another reason for wanting to be here such as family or regional preference. It is the less than competent residual that begins to present problems for the university. They have a propensity to want to water down standards both in teaching and research to fit their preferences. They also have the ability to make the environment less friendly for research productive faculty and push for raises based on factors other than research.

I see the role of SFT in this process as one of accelerating the exodus of quality faculty. The most visible and most reported was in English when two nationally known scholars left, one having been fired and the other likely tired of fighting the battle. While English and Liberal Arts were more visible, and likely of more interest to posters and readers of this Board, other colleges and departments have suffered also, albeit with a lag. The exodus in COB includes both senior and junior faculty and the prospects are not good that we will be able to replace them with faculty of equal quality. The problems in Education with SFTs daughter are of soap opera proportions. Once a candidate visits campus, even a candidate who not very astute can determine something is wrong at USM. Also, that information is out there in the market place.
Until these conditions are remedied, USM will not be very competitive in hiring and that has serious long term implications. The longer that Dr. Saunders goes without meeting with faculty in small to moderate groups, the more entrenched the current administrators become, and the more dismayed faculty become. It is at the local level that she will get the most information and have the most impact on faculty. While it is politically wise to meet with the Faculty Senate, that will be of little value. The Faculty Senate President is a failed Provost, which in its self speaks volumes of how far down we have come.

ram · Status: Offline

qwerty wrote:

Is anyone surprised that they are not fairly paid as faculty members at a Mississippi university?

Wages and per capita income are lowest in Mississippi, so why shouldn't salaries be lowest as well?

In general, I agree with everything you said. In particular, I agree with your observation about cronyism and nepotism.

Your first question makes me think about the concept of fair pay. Because "fair" is a relative term, one's pay can only be considered fair or unfair relative to the pay that someone else receives. I understand your point to be: isn't it only fair that the faculty at Mississippi universities are relatively underpaid if all other Mississippians are relatively underpaid, too?

In my business, I could make more money if I just moved to Jackson. I know that because my employer has published calculations that show the pay ranges for our employees in various areas where we do business, both in and out of Mississippi. Management makes no bones about it: we employees are paid salaries that are competitive with those paid for similar positions in our geographic locations. An employer simply does not have to pay an employee as much to work in Hattiesburg as would be paid for the same position in Jackson, Birmingham, Atlanta, or Houston.

Similarly, I could earn more if I just moved. Not to anyplace in particular -- if I was just willing to move: to go to the trouble to talk to a headhunter (er, recruitment specialist), then go on interviews, then negotiate a new salary, then buy a home, then sell a home . . . well, you get the picture. An employer knows that typically he/she/it will have to bump the salary to hire someone who already has a decent job.

A variation of that idea is that I may be able to get a higher salary right here if I claim that I am ready to accept another, higher paying position elsewhere. But that requires either that I be willing to (a) actually take that job elsewhere or (b) bluff like a puppy chasing a pickup truck.

On the other hand, I'd like to think that fair should be determined relative to others performing the same job, irrespective of the geography. Is there a good rationale to support that idea? Are there factors in this respect that distinguish work at a university from other work?

-- Edited by ram at 11:54, 2007-06-03

LVN · Status: Offline

Just curious. Is Dr. Saunders' meeting schedule published somewhere? How do we know who she has met with and when? It's entirely possible she had meetings or at least conversations that have not been publicized -- in fact, I'd be willing to bet that this is the case.

Also, the little swipe at Dr. Henry is not useful, nor is the continued assertion that this is somehow a Liberal Arts board. I was at the party -- ALL the colleges were well-represented.

-- Edited by LVN at 13:44, 2007-06-03

Curmudgeon · Status: Offline

The faculty attrition statistics in the C-L piece may greatly underestimate "churning" or repeated turnover. Once a person who was on board in 1996 departs, say in 1998, that position can turn over repeatedly and not be counted as attrition. During the Thames era there were numerous temporary, visiting, or instructor positions used to plug holes in the faculty. Some positions were filled two or three times as young faculty came and departed.

An interesting statistic would be the total number of faculty departures during the period for all schools. The PERS trapped people are going to retained while the other positions turn over repeatedly.

Frank Glamser · Status: Offline

Cossack said,

"While it is politically wise to meet with the Faculty Senate, that will be of little value. The Faculty Senate President is a failed Provost, which in its self speaks volumes of how far down we have come."

Myron Henry's performance as provost is not an issue in this context. Myron has been elected to head the Faculty Senate twice, something I don't recall seeing in recent history. This would suggest that his performance in that capacity has been greatly appreciated by those in the best position to judge it. Myron has been a tireless champion for the faculty and the university during a very trying time. We are fortunate to have had someone with his depth and breadth of knowledge of higher education in our corner. His careful efforts have benefited us greatly.

LeftASAP · Status: Offline

Correct Frank. The swipe at Myron makes no sense since Myron steps down at the June meeting and Stephen Judd takes over as president. I believe all of the F.S. officers met with Dr. Saunders, and not just the current F.S. president.

Cossack · Status: Offline

LVN

My post was not a swipe at Myron Henry. It reflects my concern with the situation. I would have the same concern if the vice president of a company was removed and she became the union steward. Moreover, I did not say that this was a Liberal Arts Board. I said that the issue of faculty leaving voluntarily because of SFT or by being dismissed by SFT, was of more interest to those in Liberal Arts. That should be obvious since the faculty involved in the first firing episode were from Liberal Arts. Moreover, they were (1) well-respected scholars, and (2) they were very honorable and brave people because they took a stand knowing that it was not popular with the administration. That is why the preponderance of faculty voted no confidence in SFT including most faculty in my college. Since then similar activities have occurred in other colleges with less publicity.Both you and Dr. Glamser feel much differently about Dr. Henry than I do. Since I have a great deal of respect for both of you, I wil refrain from criticizing him on this Board. As to the break down of where posters on this Board are from, I will bow to your opinion that there are many posters from across the campus. That said, I have a feeling that I may be the only faculty member from COB that posts on this Board. James T. LindleyAKA Cossack

Rod Sterling · Status: Offline

Just a quick word to stick up for Myron Henry - in the depths of USM's dispair, Myron stood tall against Thames. He bore the brunt of Shelby's angst, being summoned to the president's office and attacked by Shelby and his henchmen. I don't know of any other faculty members who would (or could) have done the same. Many faculty members are unaware of Myron's strong will and his unwillingness to submit to Thames' tyranny. That the university has survived these turbulent years is due, in large part, to Myron's efforts on its behalf.

Interested onlooker · Status: Offline

Rod Sterling wrote:

Just a quick word to stick up for Myron Henry - in the depths of USM's dispair, Myron stood tall against Thames. He bore the brunt of Shelby's angst, being summoned to the president's office and attacked by Shelby and his henchmen. I don't know of any other faculty members who would (or could) have done the same. Many faculty members are unaware of Myron's strong will and his unwillingness to submit to Thames' tyranny. That the university has survived these turbulent years is due, in large part, to Myron's efforts on its behalf.

As someone who was there during part of this time, I agree with Rod. Whatever you might have thought of Myron as a Provost, he deserves our respect and thanks as a faculty senate officer.

Adjusted your format for clarity. -- Mod

-- Edited by Moderator at 17:27, 2007-06-03

Moderator · Status: Offline

Cossack wrote:
That said, I have a feeling that I may be the only faculty member from COB that posts on this Board. James T. LindleyAKA Cossack

Considering some of the posts we've deleted, that's probably not true.

stinky cheese man · Status: Offline

i tend to agree with Cossack on a number of issues, including Myron Henry, but I'll say no more on that point.

i'd like to return to the issue of faculty exodus and salaries. we may be in one of the poorest states in the country, but when our sister institutions (UM and MSU) have widened the salary gap between us and them over the past 10 or so years, it's not just that we're in a poor state--that's a constant in equation. at one point when Lucas was leaving we had the highest average salaries in the big three.

what complicates matters is the fact that UM and MSU have advantages that we don't have. A Phi Beta Kappa chapter at UM and an attempt to get one at MSU give them the ability to leverage salary money. A PBK chapter can say to an administration, "watch our salaries. If you don't make them competitive you may lose the chapter." An aspiring chapter (as at MSU) can say we need better salaries. In fact, MSU has gotten a $500,000 boost in salary monies as a separate budget line to attract faculty who are members of PBK.

In addition, at USM we attempt to deal with salary equity issues with the increase in monies given by the IHL. UM this year got a $1 million dollar salary equity appropriation by the IHL before funds were allocated to the universities. It was an off-the-top allocation. We try to do it in our 5% increase--save away a small amount to try to deal with equity issues.

qwerty · Status: Offline

SCM:
Am I correct in remembering that one of the things that got Fleming in trouble was his insistance that USM get funded at the same per student rate as UM/MSU?
That would certainly be another example of the unfair advantages you cite in your post.