CHECK OUT THIS FROM JAY GRIMES - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Sep 9, 2004

CHECK OUT THIS FROM JAY GRIMES

Date: Sep 9, 2004

On the one hand, this is an entirely logical organization & is how many institutions do it. It makes sense for I.R. to be in the same organizational unit with accreditation & planning. It also gets it off Jay's plate & onto Joan's.

On the other hand, it puts I.R. under the president's direct authority, which is probably not a good thing unless Shelby begins regarding enrollment figures in the same way as he might view output from a mass spectrophotometer (i.e., hard data & not mushy metrics for mader math).

On the third hand, articulation is an academic matter & ought to be under the Provost's office. However, the previous provost didn't do very well with articulation...

Date: Sep 10, 2004

Invictus,

Institutional Research reports to different upper administrators at different universities.

Presently at Clemson IR reports to the Secretary to the Board of Trustees, who has no counterpart at USM.

Two things, though...

Grimes is probably happy to be rid of IR so he can't be blamed the next time it screws something up.

And...

Who gutted IR a couple of years ago? My understanding is that Shelby Thames did it, not Tim Hudson.

Robert Campbell

Date: Sep 10, 2004

Shelby gets the A & R (accountability & responsibility) for the IR screw-up. I just seems like yesterday when the good people in IR went to work one Monday morning and, strange, their keys did not work to open the building. Calling campus security to open the building, they found out that they had been terminated.

Don't you just love the way Shelby works to make people glad to be a part of his empire. I love the fact that he treats people like a piece of dirt, then blames someone else for his (world classless) dastardly deeds.

Date: Sep 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Robert Campbell
"Institutional Research reports to different upper administrators at different universities. Presently at Clemson IR reports to the Secretary to the Board of Trustees, who has no counterpart at USM. Two things, though... Grimes is probably happy to be rid of IR so he can't be blamed the next time it screws something up. And... Who gutted IR a couple of years ago? My understanding is that Shelby Thames did it, not Tim Hudson."

I've worked at an institution where IR was a direct report to the president & I've worked at an institution where IR was under the VP for academics. And I have visited schools that have IR splattered all over the org chart.

Yes, Thames replaced the IR director when he came in, but so did Fleming. That's part of the problem: there hasn't been an incumbent in the director's position who held the job for more than 2-3 years.

Date: Sep 10, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by: Invictus
" I've worked at an institution where IR was a direct report to the president & I've worked at an institution where IR was under the VP for academics. And I have visited schools that have IR splattered all over the org chart. Yes, Thames replaced the IR director when he came in, but so did Fleming. That's part of the problem: there hasn't been an incumbent in the director's position who held the job for more than 2-3 years. "

But Fleming didn't replace the IR director by locking her doors and telling her after the fact.

Date: Sep 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Not so sad
"But Fleming didn't replace the IR director by locking her doors and telling her after the fact."

This is entirely correct. Thames' methods for termination are just plain boorish. I think he's one of those people who confuse "toughness" with "rudeness." Ordinarily, changing the locks is done when one suspects that the terminated employee will attempt to sabotage something. I wasn't crazy about the Fleming-era IR director, but I never thought she was that dangerous.

But the fact remains that after Fleming came in, nobody has remained in the IR director's job long enough to know which way is up. Ironically, one of the main external reports that USM issues (sporadically) to this day was designed by Sidney Weatherford about 20 years ago...

Date: Sep 10, 2004

and, it's Thames's methods that have landed him in a few lawsuits to date. Hey, Shelby - when are you going to learn that policies are there for a (legal) reason?? When you told the faculty that you expected 10 millionaires within the next couple of years - I imagine you were talking about faculty/former faculty who are suing you.

Date: Sep 10, 2004

quote:
Originally posted by: Swan Song
"and, it's Thames's methods that have landed him in a few lawsuits to date. Hey, Shelby - when are you going to learn that policies are there for a (legal) reason?? When you told the faculty that you expected 10 millionaires within the next couple of years - I imagine you were talking about faculty/former faculty who are suing you."

ROTFLMAO!!!! Mr. Wonderful, this gets my vote this week! Beautiful!!!

Date: Sep 10, 2004

It was pointed out in another post that IR requires training and experience. I don't know that you would call it a profession, but it's not something you can just walk into and do correctly. I worked in IR for several years (elsewhere) under a Director who was a fanatic about accuracy, accountability and loyalty to the university. I hated every minute of it, but it was extremely valuable training. We reported to the President at one point, and to a VP at another. It did not affect our performance. My job was to produce a book called "Statistical Studies" each semester. The book included current data and 5-year history for such things as credit hour production (which affected department funding), enrollement (both headcount and FTE) and student demographics, including time to completion. This was all pulled and calculated manually from huge green bar printouts. Woe betide us if there were errors -- chairs watched their stats with a close eye. At no time was there ever, ever, ever any hint that we should massage the numbers in any way whatsoever. Requests for information usually came to us without going through any other office. Because our Director was an experienced professional, she was trusted to do her job and we ours.

All this is to say that the way IR has been handled at USM is horrible. You can't just throw people in there with no training or experience and expect them to understand what that office is about, and then blame them when it goes wrong. This administration once more reveals its lack of understanding of what really makes the wheels go around at a university, as well as its lack of concern for loyal and dedicated employees.