Dual Enrollment - USM Forum -- Message Board

Date: Mar 27, 2005

RE: RE: RE: Dual Enrollment

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Amen Stephen!

Furthermore, I want to remind folks off campus that we spent last week advising students into classes - into a fall schedule that was set up long ago. And, in the HA, Exline asserts that this high school stuff is OK as long as taught by USM faculty. Who would that be?

I still maintain that sociology faculty would have been ordered to suck it up and teach the extra class, and this is a way to try to continue to convince the IHL board that enrollment continues to climb under the Thames administration.

Pood said he was not informed. Our department chair was not informed. Even if this was simply a remote possibility, we should have been in the loop.

This thread appears to be trying to convince us that this is not a big issue. I suppose this could be the case, but in my department, it's a big deal. Another big deal.

For me as chair of Academic Council, it's a big deal because we are really sweating because we are years behind in assessing the core. And SOC is a core class! This, to me, just throws a monkey wrench into the works. What AC has to do is going to be tough enough without complications like high school sections.

Amy Young

Date: Mar 27, 2005

Perhaps the motivation of having all high school student classes is to minimize the bad press that could arise from placing minors in classes with hormonally charged unsupervised college undergraduates.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Marginal Cost = 0
"Perhaps the motivation of having all high school student classes is to minimize the bad press that could arise from placing minors in classes with hormonally charged unsupervised college undergraduates."

Whatever. Didn't realize that we were configuring university teaching to safeguard the moral lives of our students . . . . a college course isn't just about the content. The problem with all the emphasis on on line delivey is that it reduces university education to simple information delivery and reception. It isn't.

And when administrators allow that to happen, they undermine the reasons for the continued existence of the embodied university campus . . . Administrators, insteadof defending the corpus of the university . . . . are delivering it to those who see it only in economic and information terms.

Of course that makes sense as university administrators are increasingly less and less the beneficiaries of the kind of illuminative experiences that universities ought to be -- hence they can hardly defend something they don't understand.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

I will try to answer your questions from many different posts.

The deans did know that Cox was investigating offering courses on high school campuses. The decision to actually do so has not been finalized. It was to be a pilot program based on the interest from students at the high schools. The results of the study have not been presented to the deans yet, so it is not surprising that Pood felt out of the loop. I don't think it is reasonable to say any of the deans are lying unless they say that they had no knowledge of the investigation of the concept.

Secondly, see February Minutes from IHL meeting about dual enrollment agreement.

Third, this was not a press release. It was a story initiated from outside.

Fourth, schedules do change all the time. Sections are added and consolidated based on student demand. Sure, a "good" schedule is put together for the next year, but everyone knows the written version of the schedule of classes is out of date within a month of publication!

Date: Mar 27, 2005

In the Know,

I see the Dual Enrollment agreement in the minutes of the February 17 IHL Board meeting (Exhibit 3, starting at p. 33 of 49 in the PDF).

The dual enrollment arrangement is not exactly old, but it is in force.

However, I still don't understand how all of this was being handled inside USM, and in particular why departments weren't notified.

I also don't see how the Academic Council was going to get involved between now and the beginning of the Fall semester. Unless the plan was to make sure it wasn't involved.

Robert Campbell

PS. You still haven't said one word about the Black Friday Memo, and the impact on accreditation if it had been allowed to stand.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: Marginal Cost = 0
"Perhaps the motivation of having all high school student classes is to minimize the bad press that could arise from placing minors in classes with hormonally charged unsupervised college undergraduates."

It also saves the college undergraduates the humiliation of being out-performed on exams by high school students. Think about it: if the h.s. student is required to have a 21 ACT (currently advertised) or a 25 ACT (per the Bulletin as cited by Amy Young), then the h.s. student may very well have higher entrance exam scores than most of the "college" students in the class!

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: In the Know
"Secondly, see February Minutes from IHL meeting about dual enrollment agreement."

Given your claim that the study of this HS campus class began in the fall, how is a February meeting relevant?

--

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: In the Know
"Fourth, schedules do change all the time. Sections are added and consolidated based on student demand. Sure, a "good" schedule is put together for the next year, but everyone knows the written version of the schedule of classes is out of date within a month of publication! "

Sorry, this statement is a bit fuzzy. What do you mean by "all the time"? 24/7? Or--as would fit my experience--occasionally, as the obvious need arises? I can't help but thinking of the number of students who put off advising and even enrolling until the last minute and who then declare that they "must" get into closed sections. Academic planning needs too much lead time to respond to the "needs" of those who didn't plan ahead, though it can of course assess genuine interest in/need for a course and make slower, surer changes. Occasionally an additional section might be created, but it is more sensible to offer more sections the following term. So, what do you mean by "all the time"? For instance, what percentage of course offerings might change in any given semester?

Furthermore, in my experience the courses that tenure-track professors are originally scheduled to teach in any given fall is by and large what they end up teaching. And this sudden, secret proposal concerns those professors, no?

Jameela

Date: Mar 27, 2005

You have to read all the old posts on this thread. Someone said IHL couldn't give high school credit. In Feb, they worked with other boards to articulate agreement so students could earn high school AND college credit.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

I have no idea what deans do and don't say to their chairs and how they do and don't communicate. I am not in the know about that. My scope is limited to certain matters that affect student affairs.

Date: Mar 27, 2005

I'm on the road all next week. End of posts!

Date: Mar 27, 2005

quote:
Originally posted by: In the Know
"I'm on the road all next week. End of posts!"

Bring us back some good ones!

Date: Mar 27, 2005

It also saves the college undergraduates the humiliation of being out-performed on exams by high school students. Think about it: if the h.s. student is required to have a 21 ACT (currently advertised) or a 25 ACT (per the Bulletin as cited by Amy Young), then the h.s. student may very well have higher entrance exam scores than most of the "college" students in the class!

Invictus,

From personal experience you hit the nail on the head. A hs student with a 25 ACT and any kind of work ethic will blow through virtually any lower-level class at USM.